48 replies to this topic

[Debs]

Thank you everyone - lumpnuggin you are absolutely right, called the police this morning to go over the harassment order, they came out today and we went through everything - not enough evidence, everything that I have she can easily challenge - so no harassment and aparently victimisation and intimidation means nothing.  So I am back where I started.

 

I am a rational individual dealing with an irrational individual I know she can't speak my language and I have never had any reason to learn hers - everyone is telling me that I need to man up and give a good as I get but I don't know how to do that - what does that look like?

 

The officer was talking about mediation via the council - in a rational world yes but to be honest not sure if it hasn't already gone beyond that.  I will need to give it more thought.  Has anyone done this successfully?

[noxskuses]

What a nightmare. Lots of great advice here. Hope it works out for you Debs. Keep us informed.

 

Since joining this Forum I have to say that 'decent neighbours' has gone to the top of my list whilst looking for land

[Debs]

Cameras purchased and ready to go up.  I am deeply concerned as she has gone very quiet and I mean literaly quiet.  Normally she has the radio blaring out and there is a lot of false a laughing I know you all know what I mean but this week you could hear a pin drop - whilst I am loving the peace and quiet - "be afraid be very afraid"!!!!

[j and H]

never be afraid…be alert… remember, you have done nothing wrong, 

[Debs]

OK so camera is up has been for a couple of days will be taking the card out today just to check that we have it in the correct place.  Got a call last night from my South African friend who keeps her horse at ours and again neighbour has stopped her at the gate as she was going into the yard and told her to "keep the goats quiet" bless her she hadn't even unlocked the gate.  When friend asked her how she suggested she do this neighbour screamed "I don't care".  She then launched into the whole "its your fault I had an accident and broke my hand" subject.  When friend asked what she expected her to do without electricity neighbour screamed "I don't care".

 

I really feel for my friend.  Done a full day at work, looking forward to spending some quiet time with her horse on her own with no intereference from anyone (she has the yard to herself in the evenings as I have normally finished and gone home by this time) and then she has to put up with this from a neighbour.  What concerns me is that from friends discription she really lost it last night screaming and shouting - this appears to be escalating into very unpredicable behaviour and apart from anything else, friend is there at night in the dark on her own with very unstable neighbour next door.  Now she is a afraid and that is not a joke.  Called Thames Valley Police to record the incident and they were very supportive despite not being able to do anything but Herts Police well what can I say I ended the call without logging incident as person on the end of the phone was so unhelpful it is unbelievable.

 

What is really frustrating is this is clearly a dispute between neighbours.  She has an issue she airs it (albeit irrationally) we don't respond and that its - on the surface anyway.  This is all the police see - the facts.  What they don't see is that this communication in unwanted, it causes you to feel physically sick not knowing when the next onslaught is going to occur and finally it makes you not want to be there at all when all you really want to do is spend time with your horses.

 

So - at least I can log it all here.  Its time for us to rethink the situation and whilst I don't want to it may be time to approach the farmer that we bought it from to sell back (at market rate of course) and if he doesn't want it then I will sell it to the travelling community for a quick sale. Another sad day in paradise !!!! Why can't people live and let live?

[Ronnie the pommy]

I hope the cameras caught this out burst from your very unstable neighbour. I know it isn't nice to deal with, but the more evidence you have of her unstable and very unreasonable behaviour on video the more chance of having a restraining order put on her. This could mean that she might not even be able to go to her field, she may then be forced to the sell her land and move away leaving you in peace.

[sandman]

Hi, Debs, sorry to read about your problems. You just can't buy good neighbors' can you. Maybe you should let her know if this carry's on, you have been made an offer from some travelers and you would consider taking it. After all, if she wants trouble with neighbors, then she'll get all she wants from that lot.

 By the way, if you know any legal people at all, invite them down for a look at the horses and maybe a free ride, a bit of hacking or something. Just don't mention the neighbor. They may give her some free advice!

[Debs]

Update - we have some pics back.  One is clearly showing her standing at our gate looking directly into the camera giving it the bird.  Classic.  Question if we are taking pics and video with this camera how does this affect the general public using the footpath that seperate me from my neighbour - are we doing anything illegal that she can complain about as clearly she knows we are filming.

[Ronnie the pommy]

I really can't see that what you are doing could possibly be illegal as the camera is on YOUR land, and there is no law that I have ever come across that says that you can't record or take photos on your own property.

[Debs]

Thank you ronnie the pommy.  Sandman - I work for a charity and one of our trustees is a solicitor and I spoke to her today to talk about the problems and without specifics she says that I have a case for harassment which is reasurring.  Just so that we move forward with everything in place I will give her a letter in the morning saying that we will no longer enter into conversation with her and if she or anyone acting on her behalf wants to communicate with us they must put it in writing and sign it.  I have also said that if she or a third party acting on her behalf refuses to respect this request then we may record the communication to pass onto a third party.  I doubt very much this will mean much to her as clearly from her response to my camera she feels that she is untouchable but at least this way if she approaches anyone of us more than twice we can obtain an harassment order or I can contact LN and take the b**ch to court.  We are going to reposition the camera tomorrow as although it did pick up my friend having a conversation with someone you couldn't see her on camera so we need to move it so that we can get that, also it was slightly too far away for any clear identification - if it wasn't for the fact that she got into her car and drove away we would be hard pushed to claim it was her.  We also need to be careful incase she simply hops over the fence and nicks it!!!

[shepie]

Sounds like you need another one pointing at the first one as she is sure to nick it if you don't
Anyway a vast improvement on this morning , just keep going you can only win in the end as she is sure to hang herself , you don't even need to supply the rope , she is doing it herself

[j and H]

debs, if the camera, is on your land, no one can do anything about it….you can also use a camera in any public area….. no difference in using CCTV..in fact , it wouldn't hurt you , if you where to buy a CCTV sign and put up

[sandman]

Hi H and J. That's not quite right. From when my father had a break in into his outbuildings and I had my very large window in my shop smashed, I have been led to believe by the police, that you can only use cctv as evidence if you have a sign letting any body know it is in use. Of cause it would be up to the guilty party to prove that the sign was only put up after the fact. Also, I was told by the police that I wouldn't need permission to put up cctv covering the footpath and road outside my shop as I had already been a victim of criminal damage to my shop. Basically,  as long as it has been reported to the police there is nothing they can do to stop you covering the area to the front of your property.

[j and H]

NO NO NO NO….. i am sure , if you are taking the f2f route, you will soon find out certain people in authority will tell you things that , turn out to be..not true, yet you believe them as we all think, they must know..they must be telling the truth...

 

half the police force do NOT know what is law, yet know what is legal….look at the common law thread and do you're own research on that one

you can film on a public highway, path or ground…..no matter what you are told…once you enter places like shopping centres, that is a different matter, even though the public have access, its still technically private…like your land…you can film legally on your land...

 

i looked into this when i was starting to make a film..its one of my hobbies…do not always believe, what you are told

[shepie]

That's what makes this site great people are not afraid to stick to therlir guns when they know they are right
It makes things easier for all
And no sandman I am not siding with j&h I am just meaning in general , hi and welcome

[bramblebasher]

If you are a business you are supposed to register the CCTV system with some gov body, can't remember which just now, but I don't think this applies in this instance.

 

Debs you have amazing patience, if it was me I'm afraid that fire would have been met with fire with drastic consequences, when people ask for it sometimes it's best to give it to them x 100, karma.

 

Having said that I think you are certainly doing the right thing with writing to her and giving her fair warning with legal documentation, I reckon it'll do the job, if not maybe it's time to call the A team.

 

You are a vey good, kind person by the sounds of it, we need more of that in this world, just don't give into this poisonous wreck of a human  

[sandman]

HI Shepie, and thank you. I've always thought its better to be safe than sorry. If you want to use the law then you've got to play by their rules. Say things did go further and it went to court only to be told that the recorded images were not admissible, would anyone still stick to their guns then? I know a quick phone call just to ask won't cost much. It's always better to cover your own back when it comes to problems with neighbors. By the way, apart from advice about cctv, the police were completely useless. Even with footage from the pub next door, they said they couldn't see their faces. I saw the footage and at least one was as clear as day for 3 mins before the incident. If insurance covers it they aren't bothered.

[Debs]

Well technically its not CCTV but a nature cam not sure if that makes much difference but you know what it makes me feel better that its there even if we can't use it, and I am thinking along the lines of bodily harm.  Knowing that she clearly can see it and still gave us the bird on film clearly shows that she really doesn't care or at least not enough to do what she wants outside of our boundaries.  As long as she stays outside of our boundaries then it has done its job.  We have also been subject to criminal damage back in september so we do have good cause.

 

So we had a phone call from the PC that attended the last criminal damage incident.  I am realistic about this and yes stinks of menopausal female outburst and verging on Jeremy Kyle, minus the sex I'm thankful to say, but at the end of the day as I explained to him all we want is to be left in peace, we never instigate a conversation that is always done by her and we never enter into a heated discussion we walk away.  Ontop of this she has balatantly lied to us about "visits" from the council at least twice - I know this because the last time it so happend that I had spoken to the planning officer (in January) and asked her she had been out recently to see what we had done and she confirmed that she had only been out once back in Sept to put a letter on our gate she had not been back since yet according to my neighbour she was there for hours in January.  AGain didn't call her out on it just said that I had spoken to them and everything was fine not a problem not to worry.  Anyway - PC is going to call and visit her to find out what her problems/issues are.  I do hope she is herself and he is able to see what we see - I suspect not but ...... this is exhausting.

[sandman]

There is nothing to stop you from posting the results on Youtube as far as I know. It may inflame the situation though.