48 replies to this topic

[Debs]

Hi I am new to this site (hopefully my copy of FTF will arrive shortly).  I am not an FTFer but I ordered the book because I have been following some the stories on this site and I think it is a useful and supportive community to belong to.  As I say I am not an FTFer but in August I realised a 30 yr dream and bought 6 acres of land on the Herts/Bucks border.  I live 2 miles away in Herts.  I bought the land to get my 2 horses out of livery for the normal reasons - bitchy horsey people who cannot live and let live, making comments when they are not wanted and insisting that you do your horses the same way that they do.  So bought agricultural land from a farmer, it is down a farm track shared with a lady who owns 6 acres on the other side of the track and there is a public footpath seperating her land from mine.  She had 3 mobile stable blocks of 2 stables each, 1 hay barn and a shipping container and a touring caravan.  With this in mind we went ahead and put down some hardstanding and the same number of mobile stables.  We then put a small touring caravan so that we can make tea etc and bought a generator for lighting.  Lady next door has electricity. 

 

OMG from day one we have been subject to criminal damage (day after the caravan was sited a rail from the post and rail was taken off the fence and used to smash all the windows)police were called, I have received abusive texts (which I have kept) when the hardstanding work was being done because of the additional use of the farm track and of course a visit from the local planning officer.  We received a letter from the council telling us that we needed change of use (despite having goats) to equestrian and planning permission for the hardstanding.  Obviously the stables are fine as they are mobile but knowing the problems from next door we are apply for permission for them as I suspect that we will be told to move them as they are mobile. Of course we will comply with the request as we only want to enjoy our land with our horses on it and cause no problems so we will get a professional that knows Chiltern District Council well so that we don't come unstuck, we are also applying for permission for a shipping container for feed and hay storage.  To be fair the lady at the planning office was very helpful and pleasant and has only visited once to drop off the original letter regarding concerns of breach of planning.  I suspect we would not have heard anything more except that my neighbour is determined.

 

I am absolutely astonished that we are having these problems, my neighbour takes great pleasure in standing at her gate watching what we are doing when we are there and I am absolutely sure she comes onto my property when I am not there. On one particular occasion she was there with a man (no idea who he was) but we had to ask him to get off our gate so that we could open it to drive out - he was standing on our gate looking into our land at what some hardstanding and a touring caravan!

 

I put signs on my gate "caution dogs running loose" and a picture of Rotties (I have 2) and they were ripped off the gate and thrown over the gate!!!!!  I know its all intimidation but what is the mentality of this.  The whole reason for doing this is so that I can enjoy my horses and the countryside and I am worse off - at least in livery you can move!!!.  Even if I wanted to become a FTFer and I did have the magic number of acres I would not stand a hope in hell with her next door.

 

I am sorry for the rant but really if I had put mobile home on and moved in I would expect problems but I have done nothing more than she already done.  I have 6 mobile stables, hardstanding and 4 horses (2 of my own and 2 friends horses).  Despite the fact that she has liveries on her land she has told the council that I am running a livery yard - she gleefully said "I do hope i haven't dropped you in it" - need i say more.

 

Rant over - I really do feel completely flat.  After dreaming of this for 30 years I am not enjoying this, I can only sell back to the farmer for the next 5 years so if I do I will loose all the money spent on stables and hardstanding so this is not an option which means that I am stuck here for 5 years.  I am hoping that she will give up eventually but today is a sad day.  Thanks for reading my outburst - I'm not really a spoiled brat promise just very disappointed. xx

[Ronnie the pommy]

Debs, you do not come across as a spoiled brat at all, your neighbour does though. I have had big problems with our neighbours for some years although not with vandalism, just endless unpleasant letters to the council, and the council always taking their side.  

 

What you could do with is one of those wildlife cameras that go off when there is movement and they do night filming too and run off normal batteries. Then put a no trespass sign on your lane like the one that is on the common law thread, then if someone, maybe your neighbour pulls it down you have evidence on film, also record everything you have done and take photos of how it was when you left it and keep all evidence.

 

You should not have to put up with this and you have come to the right place for help with this forum.

 

I am sure there will be plenty more people on here that will have some good advice for you so keep an eye on this post that you have started. Please don't give up and let these bullies win   and I wish you the best of luck with your dream.

[tonydockers]

The covert mobile cameras are great but dont be to hasty to use the first bit of evidence you gain, let it run for a time and ensure you gather lots of evidence so when you do finally go to the police its a big enough case they go after her.

 

Make sure you notify the police of every single incident and get a crime number.

 

give her lots of things to trash where the cameras will catch her, wouldnt want it to be too hard for her to get herself on camera, she clearly craves attention

 

if this all fails i found the best way to address a bully is to confront them and stand up to them, i dont advocate breaking the law so you will need to be creative but i am god damn sure nobody would get away with damaging my property and making me feel the way you are feeling..

 

have you asked her what her issue is? it maybe she wanted the land and holds a grudge based on some misfed info that you could rectify....

 

good luck

[topper]

SOUNDS LIKE YOU NEED A COUPLE OF STEALTH CAMS AND PLACE THEM ON TREES LOOKING INTO YOUR YARD , IT COULD BE VERY INTERESTING WHAT YOU SEE !!    SORRY FOR THE CAPS BLOODY BUTTON STUCK

[Thegreatescaper]

Hi Debs and welcome to the forum. You should get a warm welcome here, it has become a more horse friendly place of late. Many of the small holders here have some. Although I can see the reasons why people why some are not keen. We do need our farmland but unlike many I can see how horses can benefit as well as cause damage, although not irrepairable.
The first issue is whether your use is agricultural or equestrian.
The grazing of your animals and their accomodation in a mobile field shelter, even one that essentially a 'stable' on skids is agricultural. They must however be primarily grazing with any additional food being supplimentary such as a balancer or low calorie chaff for an 'easy doer'. Should you have any animals that are prone to laminitus for example or anything that would require them to be kept off the grass any any time, I know of several people that have built sick paddocks and when the L.P.A. accused them of building a school or menage politely (or very impolitely in one case) informed them of its true purpose and was left alone thereafter. One of them went on to build a lunging ring thats purpose was to keep horses with colic moving but not give them the space to get down an roll, potentially causing a twisted gut.
Any other activity is likely to be viewed as equestrian and require planning for. This might not be as bad as you would think, as if your only other need was hardstanding you could use the animal welfare act arguement, as it can be required to keep animals with mud fever out of unsuitable conditions. We are rightly so legally as well as morally obliged to ensure our animals are treated as they should and need to be and kept in suitable enviroments.
As with all rules there are exceptions. If you were to be using your equines for agricutural puposes, such as ploughing for example, then you could have a good arguement to be afforded all the agricultural benefits, such as food storage and a caravan for rest breaks and medication and equipment storage. I believe that this is also the case if you are breeding/farming natives, especially those on the RBST at risk register. These animals would also require training and excercising, which must, by association, be agricultural.
A couple of goats would be classed as pets by your L.P.A. but a whole herd would be differently considered. Agricuture is a business not a hobby and this is what L.P.A.'s want to see. Perhaps you should consider a pig enterprise alongside your horses. One member here has sucessfully done so on six acres and i'm sure your neighbours would love a pig farm adjoining their land, aand just think of the bacon, mmmmmm.
Which brings me neatly on to the last point I thought relevent. If you have a good neighbour, strive to be a better one, should your neighbour be a bad one, strive to be worse!
Oh and just one final point, nothing in this game is guarenteed and everything you get is likely to have to be fought hard for.
Ans as if this post wasn't long enough, one more thing, I promise it's the last, you've gotta check out Lumpnuggins groundbreaking work in the common law section.

[Thegreatescaper]

Deleted, double post. Nice to see you got that warm welcome in the time it took me to write that. That collecting evedence and reporting everything is excellent advice, not the way I usually go about standing up to bullies but my was is never easy in the long term and this is advice I would do well to heed.
But then don't mind a barney. Told an enforcement officer the other day that he should really be more careful creeping around land like he was, I do shoot rabbits there and accidents with such tools of farming are best avoided.

[j and H]

Hi Debs, welcome, 

as the others have said, get the camera up and running,

[shepie]

Keep putting things up fir them to rip down and film them for weeks and report all that happens as has been said , no one should have to put up with this weather agricultural or equine I would say you will never find a bigger bitch than one with a horse !!!
Just keep going and don't give up , not sure if rubber hinges and an electric fencer on the gate is illegal but sure would make a good pic on the night cam !!

[Debs]

Thank you everyone - I had a feeling that this was a real community site.  I love the camera idea didn't know you get ones that ran off batteries i will most definately get a couple.  Shepie you are so right there is no bigger bitch than this one her horse is about 17.1 god bless it - it needs to be to carry her if you  know what I mean.

 

I do also believe in Karma - what goes around comes around - bringing her horses in through the week, the big one spooked and she broke most of the bones in her hand.  Stuffed herself a bit though because she can't really ask me to help her now so she must struggle on alone - shame !!

[j and H]

you can buy them on ebay or amazon, or any good shooting shop

 

Denver WCT-5003 1080p 12MP Wildlife Nature Camera 25M Motion Activated With IR Night Vision & Remote

 

there are others, but this is just to give you an idea

 

[Debs]

Thanks J and H loved the footage and really clear.  An update on my neighbours broken hand .... OK so she broke her hand bringing her horses in when one of them spooked.  The night it happened two thing to note 1) we had a mile an hour winds and storm and 2) our generator ran out of petrol, needed filling and restarting - brand new generator purchased in November.

 

So this morning when we arrived at the yard said neighbour was already on her yard with her friend (bullying only ever occurs when her friend is with her).  She never said a word to us.  One our friends who keeps her horse with us arrived 5 mins later came onto the yard and proceeded to tell us that Neighbour had stopped her at the gate and told her that our generator running out of petrol spooked her horses and thats why she ended up in hospital with a broken hand and that if it runs out of petrol again she will call the police and they will come round to see us.!!!!  This is a synopsis of the 5 min rant so as not to bore you.

 

My friend is South African and they don't take any c**p, she asked her if when the police come round they could bring more petrol with them so she could fill it up - nice one.  She then went on to say that horses can be dangerous and if she is unable to handle her maybe she shouldn't have them.

 

This is how ridiculous it is getting - really!!!  I am thinking of doing one of two things in the hope that it might stop these pathetic threats.  1) if she wants to speak to us ask her to wait until we have activated the voice recorders on our phones so that we can record the conversation or 2) write to her telling her that if she wishes to communicate with us that we will only communicate in writing and that any conversations that she wants to have face to face will be recorded.  Has anyone done anything similar and how did it work out.

 

I am thinking that this is only way to stop this stupid type of bullying - if she thinks that a record of our conversations are being kept she might be less inclined to communicate or at least moderate her tone when she does.  Sadly I don't think that there is any reconciliation from this it has gone to far, I have no idea why she dislikes us so much and it may well that she wanted the land for herself or that prior to us buying the land she grazed all winter free of charge but either way I didn't force the farmer to sell it. What a way to start the day...... oh for a peaceful life.

[Debs]

Funny little face - not sure how that snook in but it should read eighty mile an hour winds ....

[barmouthdreamer]

Try a Gopro to record any abuse.They are cheap to buy, easy to operate (one button) and store around 4 hours of HD video and audio.Can be worn on a chest harness when on foot and very useful when on horse back.

[shepie]

Have you reported all that's happening to the police ? They may do nothing but at least you will have lodged a complaint before she does

[bramblebasher]

She sounds so so so so crazy! Brilliant! Try to find out where she lives and send her some flowers, kill her with niceness it'll make her even more crazy, maybe she'll burn herself out and go into introspection mode. 

 

Or just get your SA mate to run her over? 

[KChally]

HI Debs,
As Thegreatescaper has mentioned, we purchased 6 acres of green belt land for our horses, as you have, due to becoming fed up with horse yards and the toffee nosed people who stabled there. We haven't suffered with bullying as you have and our "story" has developed over the last few years.

If you did want to expand into something more, I just want to tell you that it can be done on such a small acreage, although not by the F2F method. We have gained full planning permission for an agricultural workers dwelling with our pig business.

I agree with what has been said previously, cameras are a good idea. We are thinking about getting some cos we are fed up of fly tipping near to us. Anyway the very best of luck to you and don't let the b......s get you down,

KChally

[Debs]

Thanks KChally - I have read your diary and am interested in how you progressed.  I would very keen to go the route that you have but I am put off based on her next door.  I know we shouldn't let other control our lives but if I can't have electricity run via a generator without receiving abuse can you image what I will be facing with pigs !!!!

 

I think it has been a very long year - going through the purchase process and then the last 6 months of grief - I think I am just exhausted with it all.  It does feel as if she is scrabbling around for things to moan about either that or I am beginning to develop thicker skin but the gropro idea and the nature cam are worth looking into I suspect that if she thinks that we are recording she may think twice or she may find alternative ways to get at us.  It must a be a really sad place to be in her head.

[Debs]

OK so enough already !!!  Thought this morning was a bit of joke really but tonight I was leaving the yard and she was walking up the track with her friend.  She wouldn't move over fair enough so I stopped and as she walked past she kicked the side of my car.  Not a new car admittly but enough already - now its getting physical.

 

I ignored it and drove off.  I have just called the police and had a discussion with them about my options.  I can report her for harassment kind of a civil restraining order so that she can no longer have any communication written etc with me and she cannot approach me in any way.  If I go this route the police visit her and inform her that she can no longer have any communication with me. if she does they will arrest her.

 

I am going to pull together all my information, sleep on it and make a decision in the morning about what I am going to do.  So much for living the dream - don't suppose it would be so bad if it wasn't just me on my own sometimes you need the support. A large glass of wine I think

[j and H]

you are a much better person than me…i would have got out and kicked her..saying ..thats from my car….then smiled..

 

i know that is the wrong thing to do, but who the hell does she think she is….

 

i can't write what i would like to……

[davidc]

Raise a complaint and get the police to visit. Probably wouldn't go for a restraining order - yet, but tell the police to tell her that will be the next step. I've had a number of issues with a neighbour. He has done things like raising the level of his land so that it all the water drained into mine. Complained to council - they would not do anything. I eventually managed to retaliate by building a bund against the boundary which is just about retaining the water now on his land. He is a solicitor and went absolutely ballistic - swearing - most vile language, that I should be dead etc etc. I could not believe it - it was though he was totally unhinged. Of course I fought back and immediately realised I had to go to the police. He ended up with a phone call and a visit. He's keeping a low profile now.