24 replies to this topic

[Debs]

HI  Just before christmas we took on 3 unwanted pygmy goats.  I know nothing about goats or any farm animal however via the grapevine I understand that my really lovely helpful neighbour is asking questions about whether they are registered/tagged!!!

 

I've had a look on the Defra website but can't see anything relating to goats - can someone tell me if I need to register them somewhere and if so how do I do this?

[tim'rous beastie]

Hi, try the accidental smallholder, they have a goat section and will tell you what's required. May be quicker than here?!

[Thegreatescaper]

I was told by someone that had a pet one in her garden that she needed a C.P.H. (county parish holding) number and required ear tags and record keeping same as if she was farming them. Sorry I don't have the relevant links to hand at the moment but it should be easy to find.

[j and H]

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[Thegreatescaper]

I couldn't agree more with Lumpnuggin, of course you can have what you wish unregistered lawfully, but I suspect so far you have been following the legal route and the troubles you are having with your neighbour seem to be making you stressed. If you have them officially registered then she will be able to not a thing otherwise I suspect she will grass you up to defra, causing more stress to yourself.This woman sounds like a nasty bully, do you not know any nastier bullies that you can introduce her too?

[j and H]

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[shepie]

Just phone defra or the state vet and sort out a cph number and a flock number which will be useable for sheep goats and cattle ( I think ?) and sort tags out
Can't you get tags from the previous owner or where they got them from ?

[mel]

 

Oh Lumpnuggin you are great

[Thegreatescaper]

I just had a little look at j & h's link. Have I missed something (not that it's relevant to me but could be the O.P.) but I could see little there to compel someone that keeps goats as pets to get caught up in this charade. It states that your animal won't be accepted for slaughter without tags and no doubt sale of the animal would be difficult but the only punishment I could see is that it could affect your Single Payment Scheme subsidy. It also states that you must follow these rules as a part of your cross compliance requirements (this link states that it is only applicable to businesses). None of which would apply to a pet keeper.

[j and H]

You are right, the great escape, i have removed my post as they could be confusing, 

my initial answer was added in respect of keeping goats in the F2F route

 

the site is getting a little confusing these days, 

[Groundhog]

Sheep and goats need to be tagged and is a legal requirement when moving animals,to prevent the spread of such diseases as F&M

[Thegreatescaper]

I hope I didn't cause offence. I wasn't advocating not tagging animals. Good record keeping should be done regardless of regulation. In fact in everyone bothered there would be less need for legislation. J & H, I wasn't being critical of the link you posted, in fact I found it very helpful and added it to my favourites list. I was mearly trying to help identify the legal position Debs could be in should their neighbour make a call that I feel is somewhat inevitable.

[j and H]

no offence taken at all, i can, and only will , post information , regarding to the rules of the route i am taking, 

i hope i am not sounding offensive when i say, the site is getting confusing when we have postings on Lawful and legal,..we know they are two different things,

 

i totally agree with a lot of the LAWFUL issues, but many LEGAL issues also have good points, especially when it comes to certain animals that can spread diseases, such as foot and mouth,

but even today, some of those rules are not up to scratch….for instance, if you have 49 chickens, you don't need to register, yet if you have 50 or more, you do.

i have just heard that a strain of bird flu has been discovered in the south….so registration in my eyes is a must,

 

My advice to debs would simply be..get a CPH and flock/herd number, get the goats tagged and you will have one less problem ..and its free

[Thegreatescaper]

J & H, I certainly do not find offence with your views and I would hope that no-one else does either and I don't think they will. Offence being taken usually gets in the way of a good discussion and only prevents the rightful thought being reached. In fact as I said before, I found the link you posted very informative and am glad I favourited it before it was removed. I know that I am one of those responsible for adding content that could confuse, although this is not my intent. Although I am not going down the common law route at present I am not quite going the field to farm way either (although that is closer to what I am doing). I am following almost the field to farm route, but without the dwelling aspect of it so many of the legal aspects are the same.
I completely understand the point both you and Groundhog have made of the importance of registration in the prevention and control of infectious desease and would agree wholeheartedly should the system a)not remove ownership upon registration and be remotely effective. Not that I would agree with doing away with it entirely either, the horse meat fraud being a prime example of its need (as much as its ineffectiveness) as much as the last foot and mouth desease outbreak. Your mention of bird flu reminded me, the last outbreak of this started at a pet importation centre not far from me. Pegasus, it was called, it has since been closed down. They imported exotic pets, mainly birds and reptiles and didn't follow quarenteen procedure thus enabling avian influensa to gain a foothold here. Rather than attempting to contol the people with oodles of red tape and pointless paperwork I feel the control of infectious deseases would be better contolled by the punishment of those that do not take adequate measures of prevention. This couldn't be circumvented by using common law instead of statute law either, as it causes harm or loss to others.
I have already said that registration is to be recommended to avoid legal issues in the case of Debs and for that reason felt your link was very relevant, for both showing Debs and others their legal obligations and how easy and cheap it is. I for one am glad of and appriciate your input on the subject.
I do however doubt that the government are doing it for the reasons they state though, otherwise why do they not take more appropriate action in regards to preventing ebola, a highly infectious, often fatal human health issue, arriving at heathrow. Much of what I have posted here, and in fact all that I have posted here disputing the registration sytem is more to illistrate the failures of the current system that many would blindly follow withot giving it a second thought. It is the thought that is effective, not the government control.

[Groundhog]

the idea behind tagging from the prevention of disease spread is

Farmer A in village gets F&M for what ever reasons

Quarentine area kicks in and Farmers B C D etc who are within a 5k radius all have their animals killed,under contiguous infection.

Not very nice for those involved but in principle nips it in the bud.

Problem with Miss Nice Lady  who lives inbetween the rest having a goat and a few pet sheep with no tags and no one officially knowing they are there is that whilst all around animals are removed when in theory Billy the pet goat could be a carrier.

Same applies to movement licences so in theory we know whats been where and when and in contact with what.Thats why the first outbreak of F&M was so big and widespread due to animals moving the length of the country from Cumbria to Devon on a dealers lorry.

[Thegreatescaper]

GH, Thats the part I cannot disagree with. And as for miss nice lady living somewhere in the middle, I was by no means trying to find a way for her to avoid registration, I just thought that the legislation as I read it didn't seem to apply to her, and I agree with you that it is only worth doing if everyone, businesses and individuals do so, otherwise there is no way to limit the spread of any given desease during an outbreak. The legislation should apply to all equally. I did however notice the apparent lack of obligation and mentioned it solely to possibly thwart to efforts and effects of and therefore remove some power from a bullying neighbour.

[j and H]

https://www.gov.uk/s...on-and-movement

 

here is the link

 

http://archive.defra...registering.htm