17 replies to this topic

[Thegreatescaper]

Any and all advice would be gratefully received.

 

I had to have the vet out today as despite my best efforts to keep my agricultural horse and ponies legs as free of mud as is humanly possible my beautiful new forest foal has developed mud fever on her rear legs. Fortunately we noticed in its very earliest stages so the pain and infection can be treated before it spreads.

I couldn't believe it, I have been keeping them stabled 18 hours a day only turning them out for the bare minimum (of IMHO 6 hours per day) and washing/drying their legs everytime I bring them in. Obviously I am also excercising them as best I can but this is limited to roadwork due to the watertable for the whole area being about half inch below the surface, at its shallow points lol.

The vet has advised that I keep all my animals housed 24/7 except for excercise and to limit my excercise to roadwork, washing all their legs with medicated shampoo (he is recommending the same to all local equine owners, as as everywhere is so muddy that the practice are making a medicated skin cream themselves as incidence rates are so high). The foal also has to have antibiotics, bute (painkiller/anti-inflametory) and skin cream also.

Now to the part relevent for the forum.

In my opinion keeping social animals that are designed to roam 20 miles a day amongst a herd (and in the case of my two new forests, did, as they ran free in the forest, one for 6 months, the other for 18. They only came in from the forest 12 months ago) locked in such a confined space without company inhumane and against the animal wefare act. I know it makes exceptions when it's in the animals best interests. But, and again in my humble opinion, we are LEGALLY and morally OBLIGATED to do WHATEVER we CAN to ensure the animals needs can be met as closely as possible.

So this is an easy problem for me to solve. I have access to all the free woodchip I could wish for and land that can be covered with it to create an area that is dry where the animals could socialise and excercise safely. This area can also be used to keep laminitus prone ponies off 'spring grass', the primary trigger for the condition. The perfect welfare solution for these animals. A sick paddock, that potentially has a required need for virtually year round.

So no problems then. Well only one possibly, the L.P.A.. And the fact that I am renting my land at present, so the current owner won't want too big a fight with them (nor be willing to fight using common law methods, unless good ol' lumpnuggin can come up with something that will convince them quick, lol). Oh yea, and the small matter that a local planning officer lives opposite. I know he will be sympathetic to my animals plight, to my face, but have no knowledge of how he will behave at other times. I would like to think he is decent but all my experience of anyone that is part of the establishment tell me he is unlikely to be so.

I just know I will hear from the L.P.A. accusing me of building an unauthorised menage/school, citing the excercise taking place within it as evidence.

Help, opinions and comments on my position and the best way forward are welcome,

[Groundhog]

It might look like a simple solution but be carefull you  might end up with a pile of muddy wood chips that the horse  will still sink  deeper into,if there is no sub base or solid ground where you are to lay it you will just make it deeper.it might look nice when you first put it down but could end up worse,also it will kill your fields nothing will grow on that area again,plus once it gets contaminated and starts to rot you then have to shift it,its easy to get people to tip stuf but not so cheap to get it removed.As far as planning you are entitled to carry out any ground works related to agriculture you want just be carefull of the material you place there.Road plannings are now liable to environmental impact along with inert waste,also when wood chip and mud combines it ends up with clods that stick in the horses feet and heat up.

[Thegreatescaper]

Thank you for your very helpful reply groundhog.

They are agricultural animals and I can prove it with paperwork from the national trust should it be required as they are very keen to start working with me and my animals to remove timber from protected woodland.

I wasn't planing on just chucking the chip into a big field lol, it would be  a proper sick paddock with timber fencing and drainage. And to be honest woodchip was my first choice for a couple  of reasons, mainly that others in the nearby area have successfully built  sick paddocks using it and the L.P.A. left satisfied when it was explained it was a sick paddock not a school, and these are for 'horsey' equines, not agricultural. And the fact it is entirely natural, I can only imagine the problems disposing of old rubber, that also rots, though admittedly much slower.

I am very open to suggestions of any and all the available suitable alternatives. Cost is not my primary concern, the welfare of my animals is, I mentioned the free bit cause life is expensive so I like free,  but I am frugal not tight and the most expensive option at the outset is often the most frugal long term. Be it future monetary costs, your time or even resale value, cheap is not usually cheap!

[Groundhog]

Woodchip is a good product ive just had experiences of trying todo a quick fix in wet areas before without putting a subbase or drainage in and wish I hadnt.Youre obviously going to do it correctly.

[Thegreatescaper]

Thanks for the additional info.

I am hoping to do it properly but I don't really have experience in this area. I have been involved in the contruction of soakaways in domestic gardens before but not really the same thing. I wasn't planning on starting the construction of it so soon but have been left with little option.

Would you possibly know anywhere i can find good information showing the required work/design of the drainage system I would need? I would loathe to set off on the wrong path through ignorance. I am searching myself but the voice of experience is a pleasant sound to me, never understood people that can't listen, even if you think you know all about a subject a single observation from an outsider can be extremely enlightening.

[Groundhog]

Would try googling how to build a sand school

as really its the same thing

remove topsoil remove subsoil to a depth that will enable you to put 6inchs of subbase in.then the woodchip on top to bring back up to ground level

dig trench the length of area with a fall to a ditch or run off area,trench should be deep enough to accomadate a 110mm flexable land drainage pipe,at intervals place heeringbones(spurs) to connect to the main trench into which you will connect more 110mm pipe.So effectively it will look like a tree in the middle of the area.Fill trench with chippings.cover area with teram apply subbase material and lightly compact maybe a layer of sand then the woodchip(not bark mulch)

Seemples.

Am sure there will be something on you tube.

You can also put a trench and pipe around the perimeter with pipe and chippings in that one can be a bit deeper and leave the chippings exposed that will catch water outside the area that is trying to flow accross your area so you divert it effectively,

[Thegreatescaper]

Thank you so much. You have saved me a load of reseach. Your description was easy to understand.

Pretty much along the lines of what I was thinking. Didn't think of  laying the pipe in a herringbone fashion, was thinking of laying it in parallels with conections at the lower end, doh! Now you have mentioned it I recollect seeing somewhere land drainage described in the same fashion you did. Not just blindly following your advice, it rings true to me and makes sense with what I understand about drainage.

Speaking to the landlord/vendor tomorrow. Fingers crossed they are happy for me to proceed before I complete on the sale.

[Groundhog]

Cost it out and do some research get some advice you will be surprised how much that will cost also soil type and  drains and any services underground need to be explored  before you dig

[Thegreatescaper]

Thats my next task. Shouldn't be too bad, i've got the fencing and free use of a mini digger as well as the woodchip (from a very good friend, 100% guarenteed free from poisonous species, I will be working with him when logging and likely will be cutting the wood for my chip alongside him). We have quarries nearby so hopefully the stone can be obtained reasonably. The removed material will come in very useful for landscaping, so no need to pay for removal. Just about to look into the pipe and water permeable membrane you suggested.

I'm almost certain there won't be any subterrainian services due to the geography of the area and was happy to make careful excavation (100% no gas or electric there) but would be much happier if you wouldn't mind educating me to how I can find out for certain.

[Thegreatescaper]

Found this 100mm perferated land drain pipe, only £100 with delivery for 50 metres.

http://www.ebay.co.u...e-/180689901266

In your personal opinion would this be suitable?

Struggling to believe it's only £2p/m!

If this can be used then I will be a very happy man, suspect my eagerness and surprise may be clouding my judgement and would really appreciate your opinion. Hopefully this thread is becoming a valuable resource for those requiring draining their land as the principle is the same regardless of the surface use.

[Groundhog]

Most builders merchants sell it you will need y piece joiners also.

Yes dont be too eager remember its wet and the soil will be soaking you can very quickly make a mess. I personaly wouldnt do it this time of year unless you can work clean. Also consider that you will have to keep it clean from poo and feed stuffs so need a means of collecting waste and also both you and the animals have to get onto that area so if its wet and muddy getting into it you will drag all that onto the surface everytime you go in and out,basicaly need a track or hardstanding area the area they stand to shelter or eat will get harder treat ment so that area may need athicker subbase  

[Thegreatescaper]

Thanks again your advice has been invaluable GH.

The current owner has no issue with me contructing the paddock before completion but fortunately my neighbour on the other side (to the grazing I rent, not 'the other side' lol) has the biggest rubber school I have ever seen and she has offered the use of it so my herd can excercise and socialise in there until she sells it :-) so thankfully I have some time to let the land dry out before starting work. I've dug footings in similar conditions and wasn't looking forward to it. But at least now I know where I stand and have a plan as soon as the weather improves.

[Groundhog]

  

[elegantstorm]

Back in 2012 i think it was a very wet summer, our pigs were swimming in their paddocks and we have an annual event here.  We got tonnes of free woodchip and tipped it in the paddocks - worked brilliantly as it made a platform to raise the pigs out of the soggy wet mud (more like slurry).  Only thing we found was raising the level also meant the fences were a little low so eventually we will need to dig it out and pop it on the muck heap.

We also used it on the track for the cars and caravans heading into the field - again was brilliant but we did need to keep adding more as the cars did spread it to the sides.

Alot of the campers also helped themselves to it and spread it outside their tents and in their awnings.  We just harrowed the land after the event and the chip has dissappeared into the ground and the grass grown through.

We also found it brilliant in the barns, especially the smaller stables we muck out by hand - it's really absorbant and easier to muck out than straw that 'binds' in with the adjacent muck whereas chip is just shovelled out.

[Thegreatescaper]

Thanks for your input ES. I had thought about using chip for stable bedding but was unsure if it would be very absorbent, what with it being un-dried, so its great to hear of your good experiences with it. I doubt I will ever be allowed to use it tho, they are currently on shavings so soft that I am jelous and if I replace them with something 'deemed' uncomfortable by the powers that be (wife and kids) it will be me bedding down in the stable on it lol.

I'm not going to do the sick paddock until it dries up a bit. Just moving a caravan today caused a right mess. :-( But at least it is getting drier, fingers crossed no more downpours lasting several days for a while.

Woodchip paths are a great idea too.  I have a bit of land that is used for nothing but accessing my rented grazing next door and this has turned into such a quagmire that I have had to abandon using it. I was worried that just by putting down chip could make it more difficult to sort a permanant solution in future, so again, your positive experience is good to hear.

Thank you for your help, it like all advice I am ever given, is gratefully received.

[Groundhog]

Shavings when used as a bedding and then spread on the ground  as fertilizer are actually P and K absorbing so have a negative effect unless well rotted.Miscanthis is a good product for horses and will act as a fertilizer also no worries with them ingesting shavings

[Debs]

Just read this string.  It might be worth reading Paddock Paradise written by Jamie Jackson.  I have four horses over 6 acres on this system and my land is clay.  during the summer they are on the track and in the winter they use the main field which has been rested over the summer.  I have no gateways and the horses have access to our hardstanding and open stables 24/7.  I would like to attach some pictures for you to see - I will when i figure it out. 

 

We have absolutely no mud and we should all the yards around us are really bad.  We use woodchips around the trough area which has helped but in the stables for bedding we use wood pellets which is the most absorbant I have found and soooooo easy to keep clean, although it is not the cheapest it cheaper if you buy in bulk say £4ish per 10-15kg bag of Verdo.  Having said that I put in 7 bags into each stable at the beginning of the winter and not had to add any more so far.

 

Recently had a guy come out to do our planning app for us and he was astonished that he could walk around our land in his shoes.  To help clear up the mud fever try Camrosa, you simply apply it over the affected area and you will see the scabs etc come off - keep applying weekly and eventually the hair will start growing again but it always looks worse before it gets better and your not pumping you horses full of chemicals.  Brilliant stuff really works but not the cheapest.

 

I will try to post some pictures of our set up - we only have horses of course (goats don't count) but it might give you some ideas.

[Thegreatescaper]

Hi Debs, i've looked into the paddock paradise system and was very impressed. Unfortunately with the make up of my land I am unable to implement it as is too narrow. Should I be able to fund the purchase of some of the land next door I would love to give it a go. I'm glad to hear it has been successful for you, but I find it hard to believe I wont still get mud, my friesien (700kg) seems to leave a mud path behind him with his dinner plate sized hooves wherever he walks, whereas the biggest of my ponies at 350 kg barely leaves a mark, even though they have tiny hooves and probably a higher weight per inch of surface. I would love to see pictures if you manage to work it out.
Thanks for the tips on mud fever. Thankfully the meds from the vet have cleared it up excellently. I hope to avoid it completely now I am better educated but always good to have natural non chemical treatments in the amourory should the need arise. I always prefer a natural alternative if possible and am about to try verm-x for worm control. If anyone has experience of this it would also be great to hear. I will be sure to let everyone how I get along with it. Its available for all manner of other animals.
I've definately got to look into this bedding malarkey. I'm paying 7 quid a bale (an introductory price, same price if I buy a pallet) for top quality shavings and this is damn cheap for them around here. A bale of budget shavings are similarly priced. and I have to replace them monthly, about four bales per stable!