11 replies to this topic

[emmas25]

I am looking for some help - I already own nearly 30 acres of land with stables and horses on it and was planning on applying for permission for a mobile home in connection with an equestrian business (we don't currently run it as a business). I would much rather put the mobile home on site first and build up a business over the next 5 years and would be happy to run an agricultural business and keep the horses on the side instead. I am therefore wondering if this book will help me with my current situation before I spend the money on it... Any help appreciated!

[Ty Unnos]

Hi

You will find it very hard to get planning permission to live on your land based on an equestrian business.

In planning terms an equestrian business does not count as agriculture and only agricultural workers have even the slightest chance of getting planning permisson.

Running an agricultural business that meets the criteria to get planning permission is a huge undertaking - you will not have much time left for your horses!

But if you are serious about running an agricultural business and trying to getting planning permission then go ahead and get Dave's book.

The simple strategy in Field to Farm is not comprehensive, or guaranteed to succeed, but it does seem to offer the best chance of getting planning permission I have come across.

I hope this helps!

[shepie]

Hi Emma
To be honest i think you would have to sideline the horses completely, and then start a agricltural business and run it for at least 4-5 years before re introducing the horses, as i think the planers will see right through your idea of using agriculture as a means of living on your land with your horses , sory to be harsh but this is the reason agricltural planing is so dificult to achive .

Shepie

[admin]

Hi,

As already mentioned, the horses would not warrant you living on your land. However, it does sound like your land would meet the criteria. If you were willing to diversify and work hard there should be no reason why the system in Dave's book could not be used to get you living on your land.

Thanks,

Steve

[emmas25]

Thanks for the replies. It sounds like it would be worth a go for me. I grew up in the countryside next to a farm and know what it takes. The horses are only a hobby at the moment and I work full time wih a 3 hour round trip commute each day so I am prepared to work hard at whatever venture I choose. The main thing I was worried about was the fact I already have a barn on the land (for agricultural use) and wouldn't want/need to add another and we already have horses on the land. Anyway, I might as well buy the book and see how it goes!

[Ty Unnos]

Hi

If you do not want to build a new barn then your other option is to repair / alter or extend the existing buildings on your land.

What is the state of the barn / stables? Could you justify them needing considerable repairs or alterations? Or maybe extend them by 10%?

All of these are allowed under permitted development.

[davidc]

Hi

I am in a similar position to Emma - I've land and horses, but no buildings (in the mid term turn want to turn what I'm doing into an equestrian (stud / sales) and agro / land based combination business)and ultimately want to get planning for a house.

Is this really correct about it being very unlikely to get planning for a mobile home when running an equestrian business?

Its right that horses are not classed as agricultural, but grazing them is. Plus it appears to be possible to get a dwelling with an equi tie on it for an equestrian business such as a stud (ie its recognised that horses can be high value animals and that breeding animals in particular require 24 hr attention). I think some livery type businesses can get a dwelling with an equestrian tie too - particularly high end yards such as sport horses, rather than happy hackers. Over the years I've read of some big name professionals getting planning on greenfield sites on this basis. Plus a few miles away from me, there is a bloke who in the last 10 years started with bare agricultural land, got planning for stables, put an arena in (pretty sure that was done with retrospective planning), then got permission for an office (which was conveniently rather house like - obviously a contingency). I read his planning files at the council office and it was all done as livery yard and stud (the stud bit is bxllxcks - he's never bred a horse in his life). The office is still there and he's just put up a pretty impressive house for his daughter due to her being required to live on site because of the horses. He'd included 3 years accounts for the planning application for the house (the figures seemed to be a bit creative to my non-accounting eye, but they did not stack up with the costs associated to keeping horses.)

I also know an instructor down the road who lived in a huge old house with stables and 20 odd acres, running a training yard. She ended up selling the house and yard (about 1 site acre) to finance the development of the rest of the land and then built a new, much smaller house and yard on the remaining land. Admittedly she had a fight - went to the, I think, Secretary of State (well some Government Office), but she got the planning with an equestrian tie on the new house.

I couple of years ago I briefly discussed my plans with someone who was offering planning advice for horse owners(she was planning qualified and had an equine business degree). She took on cases and got them right through the planning process - said she'd done 15 and all had got through). Sounded as though there were 20 odd requirements (from our conversation she was confident that what I was doing would fullfil the requirements for planning for a dwelling with an equi tie).

David

[PumpkinEater]

Emma - I have read Dave's book from cover to cover and then again when I extracted the bits that I felt were relevant to my situation. You are lucky - you have 30 ACRES - read the book and then you should be able to work out a solution which will help you achieve your goal of a mobile home on your land whilst keeping some horses.
Rita

[shepie]

Hi Emma

I think it would be alot easier to answer if you gave a rough idea of how many horses you have and what acreage they use, to see what is left for the agricultural side .

We too have horses and always keep them well away from any agricultural planning , if you have a seperate piece of land or the 30 acres could be divided cleanly it may work , it`s just if the planers see horses they think it`s 1-0 to them straight away if you know what i mean.

If you ran them both as seperate busineses you could even sell hay and straw to the horse side

Shepie

[KChally]

Hi All,
You need to acquire a copy of PPS6 from your planning department. This will tell you what is required to obtain permission for a temporary dwelling ie caravan first then hopefully permanent residency.
You need to fulfill certain criteria ie the need to be there, which equates to 1 full time worker and a reason why you need to be there. The caring for an agricultural animal which is solely dependant on you for feed, water, warmth etc is a definite reason.
I know this info cos we have just succeeded in getting a temporary residential permission for a mobile home, for our pig rearing business on 6 acres!!
If I can help further please let me know, cos some of these planners are ***** and just want to control you.

[FatBob]

Whilst the horses do not form part of your plan, you are entitled to graze them. If a horse is put into a field for the sole or primary purpose of grazing, it is involved in Agriculture as defined in the 1990 Act. It helps if the horses are on a grazing license and if they are not shod, but the above still applies either way. The planning officer will be looking for horse jumps and related accessories to show that the horses are not there to graze.

[happymanoftheworld]

Hi - have just received book and would recommend to everyone. Yes, as someone said, it is small, but what price can you put on having replies to your personal challenge. If you were to ask questions of a land agent, planning consultant etc. I am positive that it would cost well in excess of £25 each question, therefore incredible value.

On the subject of horses it is worth mentioning an important warning. It is possible to get planning for livery but (as I experienced) with regard labour hours and income you would be advised to not claim ownership of any of the horses because the planners will deduct them from the total. I argued that I could put MY horses in livery creating empty spaces and then put livery horses in those spaces so the earnings from the liveries would count towards my total farm income. They would not accept my doing this as quote"that's manipulating". Good luck to you.