33 replies to this topic

[elegantstorm]

My understanding is had you moved the caravan on in 2004 and been paying council tax between then and now with nothing else going on then you'd fit in with the 10 year rule (in a 0.6 months).  However, because of the subsequent planning your period would now start from 2013, unless of course during that period you are claiming to be staying on the land whilst carrying out works for which you have planning in which case your period can't stop until you have completed works.

Re the 5 year rule - at our enforcement hearing the inspector agreed that we could stay on site whilst building or intending to build something that we had planning permission for, and we wouldn't be expected to build fulltime, but continue to run our business, do some building, run the business and so on.  However at the decision he dismissed all this, and referred to staying onsite if 'employed' to build, employment being a reasonable amount of hours on the build each week.  I think he has made an error personally but to appeal would have involved big bucks going to the High Court I think it was and employing a planning solicitor to argue legal planning law - for us it was easier to move the static 120ft to an area outside of the enforcement zone which semi fitted in with our plans (which are forever fluid).

But it would probably be best to consult with an agricultural planning consultant to discuss the history, what you would like to achieve and find a way forward.

 

[happymanoftheworld]

Hi Piglet - are you surprised my head is up my ***e with all the worry I have ---- anyway, Lamb, Piglet whatever you are all still animals!!!!

[happymanoftheworld]

Hi Piglet - for some reason I am not able to paste your text from above...... reason for pasting is to ask if you could make it a few more steps - I think I know what you are saying but recently my brains are fried (can't even spell frazzled today!)

 

AND if you could, can you say where you have any example or writing to underline it.

 

Very grateful.

[j and H]

Hi Elegant storm, when you said you moved the static, out of the enforcement zone, was this still on your land..just curious 

[happymanoftheworld]

Hi Elegant Storm ---- just re-reading your reply and can you tell me where you got the bit "However because of your subsequent planning your period would now start from 2013" from - is there some legislation line or other that you can find because that is EXACTLY what I am trying to narrow down and I have been unable to find anywhere that says that. Thanks

[elegantstorm]

Hi Elegant storm, when you said you moved the static, out of the enforcement zone, was this still on your land..just curious 

 

Yes J&H - our 'holding' already has a dwelling/garden etc so enforcement drew a line around the complete holding claiming unauthorised change of use from agri to mixed agri and residential - however the existing dwelling and garden are obviously already residential and so the notice was incorrectly issued.  Inspector amended the line to exclude a number of clearly residential use areas so we've moved the static from one side of the line to the other so it complies with the notice.
 

[elegantstorm]

happyman - it's common sense - you can only be using the caravan for one thing or another, not both at the same time.  You can't claim for 4 years or 10 years that you're staying in it whilst working on a building you have planning for and then after the period turn round and claim otherwise.  Speak to a consultant regarding your site history and what you'd like to achieve and they can advise you best.

[j and H]

agh,,nice one

[happymanoftheworld]

Hi Piglet ---- I am getting more and more confused. "using caravan for one thing or another, not both at the same time". I have used the caravan for living for the ten years - and when the cabin was finished I was (and am) using both for living purposes..... most of our personal stuff is still in the caravan. I pointed out to the council assessors that I use both as they are in close proximity to each other.

 

"after that period turn round and say otherwise" - I really don't understand that  because I am not saying otherwise.... I am trying to say that I filfil the ten year rule, but should they say ok the you fulfil that BUT you must pull the cabin down because it was temporary can I then say "right - I have ten year for Change to Residential ---- the caravan - but I still have two years for the PD barn which would then mean I have had the cabin up for five years hence the four year rule for that!" - I know I am not explaining well - please have patience with me - I am now a pensioner!!!!!!

[elegantstorm]

You aren't approaching the 10 years because from 2007 to 2009 the caravan was sited there under the temp permission you applied for.  Then from 2011 to 2013 you had this temp permission extended.  So you had 2004 to 2007 (only 3 years), 2009 to 2011 (only 2 years), and 2013 to present (only a year) - nowhere along the way have you had either 4 years or 10 years.

You can't claim the rule when the caravan was sited there TEMPORARILY under planning permission.

[happymanoftheworld]

I think I can see what you are meaning but what I don't get is, for example, using the years as you have listed,  2004-7 yes three years but then temporary was granted for the 2007-9. .... and I missed out that the temporary was extended from 2009-2011 so what I am asking is I cannot see anywhere where it says that the ten years is nullified by actually having the temp granted midway during the ten years. I hope that explains it better. ----- and thanks Piglet - appreciated a subjective viewpoint..... I am too emotionally involved  .

[shepie]

We'll for what it's worth I can see where you are coming from on this one
You have lived in a mobile for ten years without enforcement on the mobile so that should ! Mean you are allowed to stay ?
If it's four years in April I would do nothing until then to be on the safe side before doing anything then you have two chances , or do nothing and stay there as you could kick a hornets nest
We have been on site for 6 months no hassle at all but now gone for 3 yrs temp , seems a bit mad as we have been ok here but don't want to live in a static fir ever so might as well get on with it and hope for the best
Good luck to you happy it's been nearly 4 1/2 years on this site and apart from where you came from as a lad I haven't got a clue who you are ha ha

[Cornish Gems]

Our advice to anyone following the F2F route is to ensure that you do not replace an existing 'caravan' with one that looks less temporary. Those of us who attended last year;s Fest and were fortunate enough to be shown around the static were impressed with the way in which Darkstar was converting the inside of it into something very comfortable indeed. We wish we had seen it sooner.

[happymanoftheworld]

Hi Shepie --- yes, that is what I thought but wasn't sure ----- but I am a bit confused at the "do nothing and stay there as you could kick a hornet's nest". By do nothing I presume you mean just carry on as I am for as long as possible, even beyond April. BUT the problem is I have a feeling that there is a phrase in the rules that says you can't go for lawful once "enforcement has been threatened" as opposed to action having started. Can't find where I read it but it stuck in my memory out of fear!!!!.... so I constantly live under the cloud of a letter "threatening" rather than the action being started - perhaps someone could enlighten me because that would make a big difference to my route map.

 

Also Cornish Gems - I made sure that the caravan was a 32 foot. It only cost about £500 delivered because a guy was just that day collecting it from a site 20 miles away to resell on his sales forecourt which was 90 miles away. He sold it me and promptly bought another from the newly taken over site - dead lucky. When it deteriorated (leaked!!!) about four years later I bought another, delivered for £1,000. Both were 34 ft and had the electric/water coupled up. The second one remains as our "ancillary" living accommodation to the cabin.