25 replies to this topic

[norman]

hi guys

 

well ive been lurking on these forums for a while now and reading the book over and over again, but i think it has been time well spent, as after my first confrontation with the naighbour and then the council i have come out unscathed. I hope all my future battles are as successfull.

 

Dave

[Groundhog]

Good luck ! 2x forty foot containers on a 3.5 acre piece of land do you have pd for the barn yet ?

[boiow]

should be easy to get Pd for a barn if the council think you will remove the containers.  good luck

[tottenham]

3.2 ACRES   2 x 40ft containers, annoy  neighbours.I personally wouldnt start  this way especially if you need to rent more land

[norman]

well just before christmas i managed to find a 10.4 acre field to rent 1.5 miles down the road

 

so ive put my p.d request in for a barn, if the notice was registered on the 16th of december am i right in thinking that the 13th of jan is the last day for a decision?

 

the planning enforcement officer seemed much keener on me having a barn and removing the containers

 

thanks dave

[boiow]

the 13th seems about right.  I found that this link  http://planninglawbl...evelopment.html  helped get the procedure correct when dealing with my 28 day notice.

[billie]

the 28 days runs from the date the LPA receive the notice, not from when they register/validate it, cross your fingers you could be home and dry!!

[norman]

hi guys looks like i wasnt so lucky as i never heard anything i emailed the planning officer today and recieved this reply:

 

Thank you for your email.

 

Agricultural permitted development rights only apply if the land is being actively farmed at the time the application was submitted and that the applicant is employed full time in agriculture as part of a trade or business. As it was not a valid application the 28 day period does not apply.

 

The LPA has received information from the Parish Council and neighbours indicated that the conditions required to be satisfied in order for permitted development rights to apply have not been satisfied. On that basis, it is not a valid application and permitted development rights do not apply.

 

This would not, however stop you from applying for full planning permission.

 

If you require further clarification, please let me know.

 

Best regards,

[boiow]

what agricultural activity do you have on your land.? 

[norman]

at the moment there is no agricultural activity. when i bought the land it came with a tenant who has use of it until march and has horses on it. once she leaves then this year im going to do veg production and some hay to provide an income then get the animals next year. i was wanting to get the barn permitted then i could start work on it in spring and have it completed ready for when i bring the hay in.

 

dave

[tottenham]

Applicant is employed full time in agriculture as part of a trade or business.!!! wrong.

Permitted development is for the land not the applicant,or even the owner.

 

The applicant does not have to be employed at all, BUT  the land must have a trade or business on going at the time the application is submitted,growing hay is fine, that can be classed as a agricultural  business.  Tell them you need the barn to store your hay the two shipping containers are unsuitable as you will get a lot of condensation that will ruin the hay. Although  the business is new has no bearing at all BUT GET THE HORSES OFF before you re apply 

[tottenham]

Also the lpa should return your fee (bet they don't)

[boiow]

If you are going to go for it , then you need the equipment to make hay,  Tractor ,mower, turner, baler etc.  If you have those onsite then you can reapply and if any difficulties , Quote them clarke v secretary of state.  

  The important thing is to show them your 'intent' and prepare to stand your ground as though your business depends on it. I have found that with our council dealings it was important for the officer to 'feel' my position.  If you get my drift.

[norman]

ive emailed back asking her to provide evidence of the requirement to work full time

 

my plan was to collect the equipment over the next few months for the hay production, but i guess i will just speed that up and get the application back in

 

thanks guys

[Groundhog]

As Tottenham says also your application is not invalid they did not seek to enquire of you business or agricultural practice.Also request to see the information that they quote received from parish council and neighbours. They can request further information from you .Neighbours views and opinions HIlarious !!!!. Also if its gone past the 28 days without them contacting you and you have proof of receipt of application they have failed in their responsability

[tottenham]

Dave

An LPA may easily fall into a trap if it forms the opinion that the building is not reasonably necessary for the purposes of agriculture and then (as a result of that) fails to respond to the application it has received within the mandatory 28-day period. If the LPA is objectively correct in its view that the building does not meet the qualifying criterion, then it is not under an obligation to respond to the prior notification application within 28 days or at all. However, if it turns out that the LPA was wrong about the test of reasonable necessity, then a failure to respond to the notice within the 28-day time limit will allow the developer to proceed with the erection of the building without any further input from the LPA, and in particular without obtaining the LPA’s approval of its siting or design.

[Groundhog]

What did you put as the reason for its construction on the application ?

Part 7 of the gpdo under the 28 day rule says that the developer may commence aftervthe 28days if the lpa havent contacted them to give prior notification.I was under the impression that they had to respond.If you application was correctly filled out and validated and you can prove its reasonably nesissary for agriculture or will be in the near future as you core business depends on it I would say you have got it.I would challenge them and tell them you have permission by the fact they didnt contact you they are the ones who have failed in their responsability let them start chasing you not the other way make a note of all communications get everything in writing.I know part 7 is foorrestry but  was sure party 6 the same

[boiow]

It looks as though the lpa are clutching at straws with this one.

    If i was in your position i would go ahead with works and inform the lpa of your intentions. i would also make sure that their was definitely agricultural activity being carried out.   The fact that they took the decision without informing you is in your favour.  plus corresponding with the parish council. ( unless their is obviously no agricultural activity likely to take place)  Ask them to forward all correspondence to their legal department and suggest to them that if they feel strongly about their position then they should enforce ( possibly suggest that you would be pursueing a claim for financial redress) .  Make them aware of the clarke v secretary of state ruling.   lpa's are having a new wave of financial cuts this year and would probably only want to get involved if it was a cert.

[norman]

ok guys ive been abit busy recently, but there have been emails going back and too between me and the planning officer at the council but basically they will not budge and say there decision is final and there is no appeal.

[boiow]

the link does not work ( site down maybe)