5 replies to this topic

[gods]

Hi

We are negotiating on a piece of land with an overage established by a previous owner, not the current vendor. The land is restricted to equestrian use and variation dependent on paying an unspecified amount to the covenantor (is this a real word?) Speaking directly to the covenator he will consider removal of the clawback (25% of uplift in value on the planning permission being granted), on payment of an amount he feels is enough!

Question has anyone on the forum dealt with similar negotiations and whats everyone's thoughts on how to get a 'value' which I would assume must indicate a final valuation of land with an agricultural tied small house commensurate with an agricultural workers wage/requirements less a sum for the 'risk' involved with gaining any PP I'm of the opinion that anything beyond a small consideration is not worth paying and so despite the site being almost perfect for our plans we may just have to walk away,  then he gains nothing but I don't suppose these people think that way.

Cheers 

[FCF]

Hi gods

 

We did the same when purchasing our land! Paid the amount for the land to the vendor and additional £25k to vary the overage, this enabled us to have an agricultural tied house and a caravan onsite so far as residential. Plus we ensured that the various things we want to do is allowed so it did not trigger the overage.

 

In short the overage is still in place with its original requirements plus a variations specific to what we wanted to do to develop the farm business without thought of having to pay 40% (in our case) of the new value after permissions and development above a base level already set.

 

The book would not advocate doing this, however you have to weigh -up what is right for you and at what cost! In our experience we failed first time and came back a year later and managed to get the right deal. So do not be disheartened if it does not work first time!

 

Good Luck

FCF

[tim'rous beastie]

How long is left on the clawback?  i think you'd need professional advice here and a lot of negotiation, the person holding the covenant has nothing to lose, so be careful you don't get caught in an expensive debate. 

 

more and more land is sold with some kind of clawback these days, i can understand it but that doesn't mean i approve.  I think the Church are really bad at this, one piece of land i bought from them required 50% clawback for years, we got it down to 20 years but they wouldn't budge on 50%. 

 

I would walk away and carry on looking, rather spend the money on an extra acre or two somewhere else than line the pocket of some greedy sod who probably inherited everything he now calls his own.

[FCF]

TRB/ Gods

 

I agree with your sentiment on the overage as a tool to gain on something you no longer own! However you do need to weigh-up what it is worth to you as in our case. The buy out was not that great for what we want to do in our instance as it had only 13 years left to run we can probably cope with not changing plan for that period.

 

You can after all only offer what you budget and your plan can afford, as i said earlier be prepared to walk away and maybe come back to it again.

 

We did utilise a solicitor to debate the clauses and purchase which was costly as it is not as straight forward as it could be so putting a few thousand aside for this is to be expected.

 

Be sure the land meets all the criteria you need and then look at it again and again with a very critical eye and debate to ensure you can do all you want too!

 

If it is meant to be, it will be!

[gods]

Hi 

Thanks for the encouragement from you For the record the covenant is for a 25% payment on uplift of value following the granting of planning permission for any development. The period was 25 years set in 2004 unless the land was encompassed into the village envelope in which case it is for 30 years. The land is presently designated for equestrian use, it is my contention that reversion to agriculture is not planning permission per-se (please someone tell me if thats incorrect assumption) and permitted development is not either, so the barn could go up with no payment, then if/when can obtain pp for dwelling a payment is due based on increase form land value at that time agreed by professionals! Question in these cases does the farm business have a value added to the land?

Any thoughts welcome

TTFN

[billie]

Hi Gods,
The overage agreement would normally only relate to an increase in value caused by the granting of planning permission, anything you do in an agricultural vein should have no bearing,however 3 year temp permission is something you need a solicitor to check.
Yes you are right to assume that reverting the use to agriculture requires no planning permission, a barn ercted under permitted development is not technically planning permission, if the covenator insisted that it was planning permission the uplift in value would be tiny because anyone could do it, and as i am writing i realise that the permitted development rights come with the land anyway so it cannot fall within the overage agreement.