17 replies to this topic

[Groundhog]

I believe that it should not be easy to follow the F2F route but Possible using legislation available,if it were easy the countryside would be littered with shipping containers caravans rubbish temporary fencing and enclosures and animals that were not suited to their surroundings,their would also be a large proportion of failed individuals living in the remains of their shipping containers caravans and temporary fencing(now on the ground) without the means to continue or support themselves without state help.Planning depts have the duty to protect our environment

[Cornish Gems]

Good Heavens!  We all know it is not easy to follow the F2F route - otherwise everyone would be doing it!  It most certainly is not for the fainthearted!  We need twice as many hours in the day as those who work for someone else in agriculture because of what we are doing and how we are doing it AND we do not have a guaranteed income, but the satisfaction of achieving something is all the greater and we would not change places with any kind of employee.

 

It is the task of the Environment Agency to protect our environment, whilst Planning depts have a duty to enforce the planning laws, but sometimes it seems they are not doing a very good job!  In certain cases, they have our sympathy as when it comes to big supermarkets, big wind farms and big solar farms they (the planners) do not seem to have much power and any refusal is just overturned by someone else.  There have been a number of instances in this neck of the woods where a refusal for a supermarket has been overturned upon appeal despite local opposition and it often seems to us that it all depends on the depths of one's pockets!

[shepie]

Think someone got out the wrong side this morning !!!!!!!

But i do agreeto some extent, we have been in farming for 25 years and keeping our own stock for 10 years , we have sheep, pigs and chickens but still live in a nice warm house whilst we expand the business and work 60 hrs per week to pay the bills .

When it looks like the right time we will make the move ! and not before as i am not convinced getting pd for a barn and then moving on is the right thing to do .

 

start business - get pd - get services connected - move on to build - appeal if needed - 3 yrs temp and work hard = Planning and a sucesfull business ????

 

Shepie

[Cornish Gems]

As has been pointed out elsewhere on this forum the F2F route is not for the fainthearted you need grit and determination, as the saying goes, he who hesitates is lost.

 

But further to the original post it is not only smallholders of F2Fers who have land dotted with storage containers or temp fencing, Many farmers have temp fencing, and use storage containers dotted over their lands for storage purposes, and many without planning permission.

 

However endless planning and budgeting will not necessarily produce a successful business. Businesses are build on determination and the will to succeed plus a little bit of luck, ie being in the right place at the right time.

[shepie]

Don't forget sound financial backing and planning I would put this first as I can't see anyone doing this without having thought it through properly ?

[tim'rous beastie]

If you know the right people, have the money to throw at it (or them), you will be give pp anywhere,  I have seen it first hand during my time working with a rural chartered surveyor.   At the end of the day, if we own the land we should have the right to live on it, after all not many of us want to be there to spoil it do we.

 

The f2f route is difficult, at times it pushes the boundaries of the rules just managing to stay within them. Planning departments across the uk are too inconsistent. I agree the countryside would be spoilt if it were covered in houses, just drive through Ireland and look at the stark new houses in almost every little field. Daft.ie has hundreds of them, every housewifes dream home, mortgaged to the hilt and not able to complete due to the recession(s).  There are an awful lot of people out there who's idea of hell would be living in the countryside without streetlights, 24/7 shopping and constant noise pollution.

 

However, I want to live on my land for lots of reasons. Not because I want to earn a living wage but because I can live far more economically if I don't rely on supermarkets, or need a vehicle to go shopping.  I have my own spring water and would use composting toilets so would not contribute to the foul water recycled through our taps/kidneys God knows how many times. Now there's a topic!

 

My land is ideally suited for solar pv, I could be completely off-grid so please don't build nuclear power stations on my behalf. My kids would have the room they need to play and exercise, something they lack in the modern little shoebox house I have rented for the last four years. They could also experience the cycle of life for themselves, not that they have missed out much so far.

 

My pipedream home is something akin to a hobbit house, earth bermed, nothing big or fancy but barely visible from outside, creating little impact on the environment but a huge impact on myself and my family.

 

 

ps does anyone else find the "snow dots" annoying?

[shepie]

That depends on how you view Xmas i like them

[boiow]

i agree with tim'rous beastie with everything but the snow dots.  I  have been watching them for hours and listening to this track   http://romeoandjulie...track/red-black . ( had a day off).

  i don't agree with the prevailing view that without planning departments the countryside will be concreted over. (its not as simple as that)

   Only 7.9% of the uk is classified as urban and only 2.4 % of the uk has any development on it. It only looks overdeveloped because the bits us commoners are allowed to live on have all the development where as the rich live on the vast estates.  the law and the 'system' is designed to keep that in place.

[Chris1]

I agree with Tim' Beastie in principle. With certain safeguards or limits, I believe one should do what one wishes with ones' land. (ie, minimum acreage etc). 'Planning', (or non-permitting) has become too  draconian and 'Jobsworthed'/restricted of recent years.

Indeed, I believe with the correct amount of £££s and corrupt contacts, practically anything can be achieved.  Responsible & well-built 'Hobbit housing' should be allowed, if not even actively encouraged.

 

Make of my opinions what you will. I am a reasonable bloke, and open to others' thinking and reasonings. I have however, no liking for officialdom nor unreasonable rules & regulations that cannot be negotiated on merits.

How is it that mis-guided folks can still believe that Councils are there simply to provide public services, when they are all big businesses, and out to make maximum profits from 'the electorate'?    End of rant !

Happy Christmas type wishes to all in here, and here's to a good new year.

[tim'rous beastie]

 

How is it that mis-guided folks can still believe that Councils are there simply to provide public services, when they are all big businesses, and out to make maximum profits from 'the electorate'?   

 

that sentence has set me off again.  I am having to pay the third parking fine in a year to the council here in Somerset, one when dropping off an urgent urine sample for a very poorly 3 year old child at hospital lab, one for being parked ten minutes before the premitted time, only one sign on the whole length of road, and one for having my back wheels where some worn out lines on the kerb stones apparently show its loading/unloading only.  The last one the bast*rd "observed" for just one minute, two minutes later i was back at my car with large box i had been collecting from shop at roadend.  Have been driving for over twenty years and never had a ticket and now three in eight months, every time i go into town i see at least two ticketed cars and since i am only in there for fifteen minutes to the bank and out again once a month, i reckon our council is making about 100,000 a month on parking fines, not to mention what they get in carpark fees which have also gone up.  

[caninejenny]

I have just opened a new topic under the general chat headline regarding living on my own land.....this is a copy...

 

 

I own outright 12 acres of agricultural land and have done for 12 years. This land is 7 miles from the house that i currently rent. I have asked about the possibilty of planning on there so i may live there but I have to say there is a total arrogant man in charge at the council who says as long as he is in charge i will never get it...... I have legal planning on it for my block of stables which was erected some 11 years ago. I also have a static caravan on the land again thats been there for now 10 years. The council agreed back then reluctantly for me to keep the static there as long as its for storage etc and not to be lived in...I currently have 5 horses on the land and my 4 dogs. (all owned by me)...over the past couple of years i have been broken into and had almost £2000 worth of tack and tools stolen over night. It reduces me to tears, I am on my own with 2 children of 14 and 15 and all they want to do is have animals on the land and live the country life. 

      I am sick of paying the high domestic bills in the house i live in and finding the money for the rent and the petrol cost running to the land every day. I am seriously considering giving up the house and living in my caravan with the children to be with my animals...I know they will tell me to get off but i cant afford to keep a house and dont see why i should being as i own my own land....any advice please...I to want to be self sufficient and go back to nature....I currently have help with paying my rent from the council as im on working tax credits which in my opinion would save the government £400 per month alone so surely it would be more beneficial for me to live on what i already own at my own expense?   

Please don't scream at me or write rude comments I would just genuinely like some advice I have also got a holding number on the land to enable me to have goats which we want...Is there anything else I could do  x

[Devon Cream]

I read in the WMN that someone tried living in a caravan on their own land because they could not afford to live in the house and had real probs whereas a traveller was allowed to live in this caravan in a layby and was given a postcode! I believe that a pcn sometimes comes with an additional questionaire  about gypsy or traveller status because apparently they are given higher priority than the rest of us. Perhaps you should google becoming a gypsy and go down that route! LOL

 

Seriously though what have you got to lose? You could save quite a lot of money. However, I do think that you should first become a book owner so that you can find a very good solution to your quandary. One that a lot of us book owners are already following.

[caninejenny]

Thanks Devon Cream lol I already am a book owner and i would love to follow that route unfortunately im a single mother and dont feel i could run a proper farm on my own ...ie pigs or alpacas etc on my own which i believe is what i would need to have to get planning. ...(

[Devon Cream]

Contact Admin with the last word on Page 2 of the book so that you can be moved into the book owner category. Then ask your question in a forum more suited to your circumstances.

 

Good luck

[caninejenny]

ok Thank you..

[bushcraft]

^{All land worked with a barn can now be lived upon, build your aminal shelter, work the land, prove a self emploted profit for 3 years,  (you do the books) & get planning for the barn conversion. Every building in Richmonshire  no matter what size has been converted almost. Now the laws on affordable housing development has been relaxed with our great government, contrary to what the waste of space pen pushing bstd at palnnning say. Get a caravan on there to live, whilst working (anything with wheels transportable ) is classed as a caravan. 10ft or 36 ftx12 you choose incl statics.offer the barn for rent at a silly price, ok no intreset good ! offer it to sheltered housing to develop no takers good ! may as well use it yourself}

[moira]

i agree with tim'rous beastie with everything but the snow dots.  I  have been watching them for hours and listening to this track   http://romeoandjulie...track/red-black . ( had a day off).

  i don't agree with the prevailing view that without planning departments the countryside will be concreted over. (its not as simple as that)

   Only 7.9% of the uk is classified as urban and only 2.4 % of the uk has any development on it. It only looks overdeveloped because the bits us commoners are allowed to live on have all the development where as the rich live on the vast estates.  the law and the 'system' is designed to keep that in place.

Since money seems to 'rule OK' - maybe its not a bad thing that 'the rich' have swathes of land they don't have to build on -  (but not golf courses, hopefully - they look awful!). I'd be nervous of losing the countryside -  like so many people - if they didn't because even if you can't use it, you kind of know its there. Usually major wealthy land owners are much more reliable and in sympathy with the environment than the tinpot up-jumped dictators working for the councils who seem to bow to the highest bidder where planning is concerned.

The thing I despair of is the builders using the 'shortage of housing' to build hopeless boxes with no space for kids to run and grow in. Buying land and making it pay so you can keep it and live on it should go some way to mitigating this. England's lost so many small farms in the last 50 years and this is a way to start putting them back. Thats how I see it, anyway - much better than huge fields, imported food and a pile of brick boxes for people to live in. A new generation of small farms covering the land - thats good!

[boiow]

I agree,  We need more small farms and less housing estates. Hopefully, small farms which blend in nicely with the countryside.