20 replies to this topic

[surreydodger]

I have been messaged recently as to the likely cost of making a Prior Notification for agricultural development when using the services of a planning consultant,,, so excuse the blatant spamming of my own services whilst I try to give some indications of such

Short and concise answer,, between £500 and £2000.

First of all, the fees you have to pay to the planning authority. For a Prior Notification the fee is always £70-00. Often overlooked or not known is that on occasions where a Full Planning Application is made, the fee will often be the same so long as the proposed development fits within Permitted Development regulations. If it is beyond those regulations then it will depend on the scale of the development but generally speaking, Full Planning Applications begin at around £350.

Then there is the need for a location plan. LPA's like to see a properly scaled map as part of the submission and it is part of the legal requirement to indicate the site. These types of maps can be downloaded from websites such as GetMapping (there are others and it pays to shop around as substantial savings can be made) and typically cost between £20 and £40.

You do not have to submit an actual plan of the proposed building but I find it helps with the application and also is one extra caveat to prevent planning officers coming up with a rejection, using the 'insufficient information to justify the submission' reason that they sometimes use. It doesn't have to be a fully detailed building plan nor does it need to show details on method of construction (such development is not subject to Building Regulations such as if it were a house). You could, if you are reasonably tidy with pencil, paper and ruler draw it yourself but take a look at a few professional plans first to get the idea of how to make a polished looking plan as opposed to a fag packet scrawl. Architects would likely charge around £300 for such drawings, possibly more.

And then we have the planning consultants fees. Typically, there costs will be between £50 and £200 per hour (independent advisers are cheaper than large consultancy's and as I hear you ask,,, shameless plug, I charge £60p/h + vat). With a large consultancy you will have the benefit that the person you deal with can talk to other professional within their own practice, so effectively you are buying many minds as opposed to just one.

If you are well rehearsed and knowledgeable about the aspect of farming that you intend to create and you understand how planning authorities work and think, for a Prior Notification you may not need a planning advisor. The problem arises in the detail of such notifications and within the supporting evidence required to obtain approval. The written statement supporting your proposal is the crucial part. Anything put within that statement, more commonly referred to as a Design and Access statement, (D&A) must be supported with hard evidence and incontrovertible proof. And of course, it needs to justify the need for your development.

The D&A statement is the most time consuming and expensive part of the operation. It will typically take around 6 hours to prepare and write. It is not necessarily the time spent physically writing but the collating of facts and evidence that takes the time.

On top of doing the D&A is the carrying out of a site visit to see the clients holding. I have tried to satisfy a clients demands of not making a site visit because they were some way away but I find this approach impracticable You really need to see the lie of the land to make proper informed decisions. Also, by making the site visit it allows me to suggest ideas and discuss with the client potential enterprises which may not have previously been considered.

So it is easy to see how planning advisors fees can quickly mount to a £1000 or more. A lot of the final bill will depend on the planning officer. Sometimes they require further evidence which all has to be addressed. This will involve reading the planning officers requests, talking in turn to the client and then thinking and formulating a written response. Quite often a one paragraph reply which may appear simple can attract an hours worth of advisory time,,, thus we get the instances of ''£60 for a short letter!!'' from a client who may not always appreciate what is involved. That's not a defence by me for charges as I do know of a lot of instances of overcharging for 'professional' charges. However, just be aware that costs may seem high on occasion but there is often a good reason for it.

So, when you tot all that lot up, you can see how quickly a couple of thousand pounds can get swallowed up. I hope the above is of interest and will happily provide more info if any one requests.

[Groundhog]

Cannot emphasis how important it is to use someone who knows the practicality and legality of this to maximise your chance of success.I have not used SD in a professional capacity but knowing him personaly and his particular endeavour,and the way he has dealt with his own application and others I would not hesitate in reccommending him for advice on the process.Also no application will be straight forward numerous communicatios need to be made with many bodies,and in my experience this can be slow frustrating and time consuming very often with no definitive outcome.Using a consultant will not ensure success and depending on which one you use also.You must compile all the info about your enterprise,look for the pitfalls before they arise and address them or have a plan an how to tackle objections,dont expect a consultant to do this for you,a consultant is like a big brother who basicaly keeps an eye on you and his presence(if he or she is any good)will make planners tread carefully

[shepie]

We paid for a planning consultant to deal with our application it involved a site visit , application fee, filling in the PD form , drawings , landscaping scheme and location map showing the car park , track , barn and similar size stoned area as the barn around the outside all in £ 500+ vat !! Don't pay too much for PD .
Shepie

[Groundhog]

Shepie I agree and in a perfect world you put a pd in correctly it goes through £500 fair price but as soon as queries and communication starts you might as well open your wallet

[Cornish Gems]

The cost to submit an Agricultural Prior Notification is normally around £70.00, plus the cost of the copying and postage which should be by either Recorded Delivery or Special Delivery. Most suppliers of Barns and tunnels are more than ready to supply you with a plan when you ask for a quote, which is fully compliant with the requirements of GDPO. The cost of a site map is less than £25.00 and once purchased can be used over and over again. We obtained ours online from Stansfields.

The form is very simple and straight forward and most people should be able to fill one in as for statements giving details of why it is required a simple covering letter will suffice, we say this as we have successfully made two applications without a refusal or a question on our 5 ha. Our application for the barn was submitted with just a completed form and plans etc with no statement supporting our proposal, a 28day notice is our right and the crutial point is when they make their site visit it is important to show that you are running a business or intent to do so.

We do agree that should you feel that one does not have the time then an expert should be sought, and SD appears to know his stuff and his fees are reasonable.

Please do not forget that the F2F Autumn Fest is the 26th to 28th October all are welcome. We are concerned as some of those who have said they are coming are not amongst those that have asked directions or Post Code for satnav.

CG

[tottenham]

I believe we ticked every box for our pd. Over double the amount of land (28 acres), business running although not trading (buying everything selling nothing) the size of barn 60x40 not the biggest, complete list of machinery on site, positioning of the proposed barn was well hidden, the land is classified agricultural. Big smile and £70 of I went to the planners.

1 week later a letter, arrived planners want to see trading figures wrote explaining we are just setting up and like any business we are spending getting the farm in a position ready to trade!!!!

on the 28th day shock horror we are told WE HAVE NO BUSINESS THEREFORE NO PD (thankfully when I tried to ring the planner he wasn't available) I do know a little about planning being a house builder, however soon realised this is not just about planning this is going to be a battle and as I don't suffer fools easily and not very, shall we say understanding when being fed bull**** I thought it best to take advice

I contacted SD and had a brief telephone conversation I knew immediately he was the man for the job we arranged a meeting at his farm and went though all that had gone on I must say looking back I was getting annoyed just going over with SD what the planners had said but he was very cool & calm and explained in detail the best way to go forward

We had a meeting at our farm and various points were disgusted and a plan set. SD filled out the application form wrote a covering letter and with a plan of the site all sent to the planners.let battle begin. The planners ask some very very stupid questions that SD answered very carefully, as he said give them no room to manoeuvre, he was so right there questions were just going round in circles, size of barn,positioning of barn.whats going to be stored in the barn, prove the business exists,etc etc, SD addressed all these issues so the planners came back with hows the barn going to be constructed and why have we got this machinery and not that again SD very cool & calmly answered there questions (he must have frustrated them with his very polite approach)

we didn't wait 28 days this time PD APPROVED after 21 days. forgot to say we are in the green belt as well, all this for just under £1000

Now what did we get for the money 1) we can build our barn 2) the planners accept we have business 3) with the planning we were able to register the farm with royal mail and get a post code 4) the planner didn't have to go to hospital and I didn't have to go to court!!! 5) a lot less stress

I would always want to have someone on my side who knows loosing isn't a option and will fight ever inch, you don't get that with a high street planning consultant
I will always recommend SD

[Cornish Gems]

Tottenham - we are very pleased for you but at the same time slightly envious. Some time ago there was a mention made of what sort of money was needed to embark on the F2F route and we realised that our small amount of capital fell way short of what was suggested. To be quite frank, we cannot afford the 'extras' which would make life so much easier and less stressful. But, we are still around after 2 years and continuing the fight and living our dream.

[surreydodger]

Hi Tottenham and thank you for your kind words. Equally, I must say it was a pleasure to deal with a client who followed given guidance on the way forward. Your actions and efficiency in carrying them out were a massive help in progressing the Prior Notification,,,, despite the LPA's wee attempts to try and scupper it

CG, without wishing to sound as though one is pushing a service, planning advice can hardly be considered an 'extra'. If you are not aware of how the system works, the planners think or how the regulations are imposed, then treating planning advice as an 'extra' would be like buying a tractor and saving money by not having the steering wheel fitted.

Also, when one considers the amount required into such an investment, which is going to be well into a six figure sum, the planning advice costs are insignificant. And whilst it is not why I advocate my services, the extra value that is created from sound planning developments far outweighs the investment.

None of that precludes that the information required to obtain permitted development rights is available on the net. Some of it takes a bit of finding, some of it is obscure to the end goal and all of it takes hundreds of hours to accumulate. This does at least allow for those who are on a tight budget to do things themselves but like driving a tractor, learning how it works and ploughing across a 1-in-4 incline are two different things.

[Groundhog]

Sd you would plough up and down an incline not accross

[shepie]

<sub>That is why we bought the land we did as it ticked all the boxes , the only bit that didn`t was that inorder to put the barn in 400 m from the nearest house, it placed the barn on a hillside with stunning views, (to the planners ) thus why we gave drawings and a landscaping design with the 28 day PD

Shepie</sub>

[KChally]

We put our own full planning application for our barn in ourselves. We didnt have any pd rights as we only have 6 acres. We already had the stable block up and we had used an architect for that, but decided to save some money. We drew the drawing of the barn free hand and sent it in with the application form and a cheque for I think £70. No probs, passed straight away.

It has been a different matter for our temporary/permanent residential permissions. We used agricultural AND planning consultants. The first time we tried to do the application for temporary permission ourselves with the help of a friend - result complete failure. So we had to used professionals who knew what they were talking about - result success, but at a high cost of a number of thousands of £££££'s.

The cost though is all being paid for out of the profits from our business, many consultants will accept stage payments with regard to the bill. So in our opinion if you have a successful farming business go for it with professionals. It takes a huge amount of worry away so you can concentrate on your business.

KChally

[surreydodger]

Sd you would plough up and down an incline not accross

Ploughing up and down a slope causes soil erosion as the furrows allow rain water to run freely downhill,, thus easily washing top soil away. Ploughing across retains water in the furrow allowing it to permeate into the ground.

From a safety point of view its better to plough up and down and I know the 'thinking' by most farmers is to plough up and down,,, but they're wrong and I'm right !!

[shepie]

Quite right SD don't forget to start ploughing at the top and throw the soil up hill !!!! Or you will cause more soil erosion than ploughing up and down
Shepie

[Groundhog]

Id love to see you ploughing accross a 1in 4 incline

[Cornish Gems]

Good idea! So who has a 1 in 4 incline and tractor and plough so that SD can give a demonstration?

[surreydodger]

So who has a 1 in 4 incline and tractor and plough,,,

I do but then who'd grow crops on a 1in4? Like to see the harvester attempting that one

[Tom Bombadil]

Hullo all.

Off hand does anyone know how much it costs now for the 28 day application notice? (25 Jan 2016)

My other-half called when I was at work and found it to be more than £300. I am sure it is not this much.

We are applying in Wales.


Thanks.

[Tom Bombadil]

Found it. £.

[Sunnysouthdevon]

£ ain't it_?

[j and H]

eighty pounds….you need to write it, or that smiley comes up