15 replies to this topic

[The Blacksmith]

I was thinking,
It happens sometimes,not allways a good thing. But I was thinking about the position of the LPA on me spending time on my land as there is no time constraints on being on the land what could or would they do if I were to spend a lot of time on my land like most of it, but leave every day and return the next day ?


I was thinking that if I left at about 11pm
and returned early next day at about 5am

or even leave at 11.50pm
and arive at 12.10am the next day

Would there be a case against me ?

[Cornish Gems]

There would not be a case against you if you had another address for correspondence for which you paid rates, etc because you could then claim that that was your residence.

Addendum to the above.

Of course you will not be sleeping on your land and you will be working during the time on your land.

[The Blacksmith]

ok thanks anyone else have a vieu ?

[billie]

As far as planning regulations go ,you are deemed to live where you sleep, so if you do not sleep there, then you do not live there. However you must sleep somewhere so unless as already pointed out by CG, you have an alternative address you will have difficulty proving you dont live on your land. I know from past experiences this route will be tricky, an LPA will happily camp out so they can photograph you rising from slumber.Also to determine if somebody lives at a certain address the authoritys say if you sleep there more than 3 nights a week, you live there, this is the criteria they use to decide whether a partner lives at an address for benefits purposes.

[RichardD]

or even leave at 11.50pm
and arive at 12.10am the next day....!!!???? do me a favour...

Sorry Blacksmith, my first impluse was to reply "Don't be an idiot" - Oops too late...

Do you really think any planning officer or anyone else would care a jot, let alone would even be aware, if you left and returned to your land as you suggest... both my professional and personal advice would be to - get a life! - use your land for any purpose necessary for agriculture and if you can't be bothered to work out whether you can live on it or not, just do it and wait for your friendly enforcement officer to come along and explain that to them, no prizes for guessing what happens next...

and so it continues.....

[The Blacksmith]

So to sleep somewhere is to live there, this is about what the planning enforcement officer said last time he turned up, I asked him their view on what constitutes someone liveing somewhere and his reply was haveing a bed present,

[The Blacksmith]

or even leave at 11.50pm
and arive at 12.10am the next day....!!!???? do me a favour...

Sorry Blacksmith, my first impluse was to reply "Don't be an idiot" - Oops too late...

Do you really think any planning officer or anyone else would care a jot, let alone would even be aware, if you left and returned to your land as you suggest... both my professional and personal advice would be to - get a life! - use your land for any purpose necessary for agriculture and if you can't be bothered to work out whether you can live on it or not, just do it and wait for your friendly enforcement officer to come along and explain that to them, no prizes for guessing what happens next...

and so it continues.....

I would love to get a life and live and grow my food on my land, but somewhere in the system I have less rights than the birds and bees, what would you think they would do if I was not breching any planning law by not staying overnight on my land, by leaving every day and returning the next day, we live by laws, and the laws have to be precise in order to be enforcible,where does it say there is a time limit to time spent doing anything on the land ? this may seem petty but we are all working to get what we need using technicalities such as these, and unless it is writen as prohibited i feel it would be very hard to enforce against, I am therefore looking for any such written law.
thanks for the support/information.

[che]

I would love to get a life and live and grow my food on my land, but somewhere in the system I have less rights than the birds and bees, what would you think they would do if I was not breching any planning law by not staying overnight on my land, by leaving every day and returning the next day, we live by laws, and the laws have to be precise in order to be enforcible,where does it say there is a time limit to time spent doing anything on the land ? this may seem petty but we are all working to get what we need using technicalities such as these, and unless it is writen as prohibited i feel it would be very hard to enforce against, I am therefore looking for any such written law.
thanks for the support/information.

Suggest you look closely at PPS7 and prepare and follow an appraisal./business plan and submit an appropriate planning application. Your present line of thought will rightly or wrongly will lead to you being seen as a chancer. This will only make an allready difficult task harder.

[RichardD]

Blacksmith, let's not get side tracked by the birds and bee's, and if you decide to go head to head with your planning office they will run you in circles before serving you with an enforcement notice, then you'll be into an appeal (or non-compliance) and then you'll have an even harder task to achieve what you want - as Che suggests, play the game (it's in your interests, no-one else's) and demonstrate you need to live on your land then by all means argue as much as you like and if it becomes necessary fight for your rights to do so.

Unfortunately I am not aware of your circumstances to offer you any specific advice and obviously it comes down to what agricultural activities you are employed in and it helps if you have more than 5 hectares although that isn't absolutely crucial (does help with the PD criteria though).

So, if you really want to get the life you want, use the system (and the planning office) to your advantage.

[The Blacksmith]

Hi Che,
I would love to get permission to alow me to be unconscious on my land, as this is the only diferance that would happen to what happens now, I have a buisiness that I run from a workshop at the same place and have all the facilities there that you would have in a house, I have chickens and grow fruit trees and vegetables although only on 6 acres of land perhaps considered by some too small for it to be proper farming, I travel to my place every day and spend most of the day there betwean 15 and 24 hours a day running a buisiness and working the land,
This would not fit in with pps7 ?

[che]

Hi Che,
I would love to get permission to alow me to be unconscious on my land, as this is the only diferance that would happen to what happens now, I have a buisiness that I run from a workshop at the same place and have all the facilities there that you would have in a house, I have chickens and grow fruit trees and vegetables although only on 6 acres of land perhaps considered by some too small for it to be proper farming, I travel to my place every day and spend most of the day there betwean 15 and 24 hours a day running a buisiness and working the land,
This would not fit in with pps7 ?

Hi read this link http://communities.g...ndbuilding/pps7

If you meet Annexe A you have a chance but it is the planners you need to convince not the forum. At present you seem to be running it without living there which will not help your case. We can help you more if you address how you intend to meet the criteria set out in PPS7 rather than how you can circumspect the planning law.
Idealogically I would like people to have the right to live on their land and work it. Reality is different and such a simplistic system would be abused by many.

[The Blacksmith]

Thanks Che.but
I am not trying to covince anyone of my need to have a house and indeed would not ask for permisission for something that I would then have to pay tax on if I didnt need it. the question was in the same vaine as the staying in not living in a caravan (1960 caravan act ) but most of my reply is to mr RichardD and his calling me an "Don't be an idiot" and telling me to - get a life! - shame is I do and its realy good, and as far as using the planners and the system I have, they know I am at my property virtualy all the time, they have informed me that this does not qualify as me living here and therefor there is no breace of planning . so I get to use my buildings and land the way I like when ever I like and pay no housing tax. This has been the case for the last 8 years.
PS does RichardD have any qualifications to say in my professional opinion ?

[KChally]

So whats the problem then? Actually, the amount of land you have is irrelevant, its what you do on it that matters. We also have only 6 acres and are farming it with our pigs. Our application for a permanent agricultural dwelling will be decided by committee on 4 April and our planning officer is in favour. So it just goes to show that if you do things "right" you will have a chance to live on your land legally. We all have to follow the rules and if you do not have a "need" to be there 24/7 then its tough Im afraid.

This may not be what you want to hear, but its people like yourself, trying to (for want of a better word, abuse) the system that can make it difficult for others. The planners look on other applications with scepticism, which is why there are rules to follow.

If you do not pay council tax at your land, then I assume you must be paying it where you actually live.

KChally

[The Blacksmith]

No problem here, just wondering about if there is any limit to the hours spent on the land and what would be the reason if any I could not spend 23 hours a day on my land. I am not abusing the system, good luck with your planning hope the committe think you are not (for want of a better word, abuseing) the system, I am sorry but it is people like me that question the rules. that enable people like you to work the system to your advantage. we all have to work together,
The FTF system is based upon an act that was not intended for use in the way it is used here, but because someone looked at it in a different way it works to break the catch 22 of need to be on site 24/7 to prove the nead for 24/7 houseing.

[che]

No problem here, just wondering about if there is any limit to the hours spent on the land and what would be the reason if any I could not spend 23 hours a day on my land. I am not abusing the system, good luck with your planning hope the committe think you are not (for want of a better word, abuseing) the system, I am sorry but it is people like me that question the rules. that enable people like you to work the system to your advantage. we all have to work together,
The FTF system is based upon a small fact in the 1960 caravan act that was not intended for use in the way it is used here, but because someone looked at it in a different way it works to break the catch 22 of need to be on site 24/7 to prove the nead for 24/7 houseing.

If you read my diary you will see I worked hard to explain my plans to the committee and the application was succesul. Whilst the Caravan act buys you some time to get started it will never replace PPS7 as F2F main goal. If you lose sight of this fact it is unlikely you will achieve your goal.
Any resultant enforcement action will require you to cease residential use and I am at a loss to see how you will convince them that you work 23 hrs a day and leave for an hour and therefore do not live there.
Not sure this thread is going anywhere or that you appreciate that replies are intended to be helpful.

[The Blacksmith]

Thank you for your reply. I am in full support of all that work hard to support themselves and wish everyone on this path good luck. I do not intend to change the planning permishion I have as it gives me all I need.
it was the council themselves that desided being somewhere for up to 23 hours did not count as living there.these are their rules not mine but this does show that sence and councils do not always go together.

The reason for starting this thiead was to find other points of vieu, thats all, and I can now see how someone doing things not the same way can cause upset, applies all over I guess.