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Hi, welcome to the new Field to Farm forum. Feel free to post anything related to the book, or living on the land in general. I intend to browse the forum at least once per day so feel free to post any questions that you may have and I will endeavor to answer them.
Thank you,
Dave Acreman
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Welcome!
Started By
Guest_Dave_*
, 05 Dec 2009 15:13
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#2
Posted 07 January 2010 - 19:03
roo1707
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- 2 posts
Chick
Hi Dave,
I bought 10 acres of land 5 years ago, it is AONB land. It has already got 8 stables, and a barn legally on it. It has permission for equestrian use for my horses. As i havnt done anything they are now a little derelict. I have a mobile home on the land which the council know about, they gave me day use for it only. This also has been trashed. The mobile has been on the land over 11 years, which can be proved. Should i apply for a certificate of lawfull use for the home. The reason is that i want to change it to a mobile log cabin and live on the land. I was thinkinking of breeding shire horses so i can live there with no trouble from the council. Would this be the answer, or can you suggest another way.
Thanks Roo
I bought 10 acres of land 5 years ago, it is AONB land. It has already got 8 stables, and a barn legally on it. It has permission for equestrian use for my horses. As i havnt done anything they are now a little derelict. I have a mobile home on the land which the council know about, they gave me day use for it only. This also has been trashed. The mobile has been on the land over 11 years, which can be proved. Should i apply for a certificate of lawfull use for the home. The reason is that i want to change it to a mobile log cabin and live on the land. I was thinkinking of breeding shire horses so i can live there with no trouble from the council. Would this be the answer, or can you suggest another way.
Thanks Roo
#3
Guest_Geo_*
Posted 08 January 2010 - 21:15
Guest_Geo_*
Guest_Geo_*
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Hi everyone, Had the book for quite a few months read it back to front on more occaisions than i can remember so that i would be confident about what i was talking about with the planners, at the begininng of december i became the proud owner of 17 acres in the most beautiful of areas, it met all the planning criteria for permitted development, trouble is they have knocked back my application saying it doesnt meet the criteria because the building i asked for was in the planners opinion 'not reasonably necessary' i asked for the max size building of 465m2, they blatently lied to me AS David said they would on numerous occasions, and i had to stand my ground otherwise they would literally try to bully you into thinking they knew more than you (they inverably dont) thing is the land does meet all the criteria but they knocked it back because at the end of the day they can, even when there wrong so now i have the lovely task of looking like i will have to go to appeal (another 3 months wait if successful) what i need is someone out there that has managed to get planning for a 465m2 building on around 17 acres so i can at least use it as an example of what another planning dept thought was reasonable for agriculture, i cant write anymore im that furious they are clearly talking bollocks but at the end of the day they can refuse it ''becasuse they can'' ,,,,,,any help much appreciated, i need all the forum to chip in asap.
#4
Posted 09 January 2010 - 14:57
Micko
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- Members
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- 11 posts
Chick
Hi Geo...frustrating times dealing with our lovely planning authorities isn't it. We've just received recieved the go ahead from our planners for a small barn and a 22mx7m polytunnel on a piece of land 16.5 acres. Luckily we didn't have a problem but the floor area is only in the region of 225m2.
Why don't you get back to the planners and ask them what size of building would be acceptable to them? and what criteria they apply for calcualating what sizes are acceptable for a certain size of plot and what aren't. They can't just say it's 'not reasonably nesessary' without backing it up with some justification.
One option would be to submit a pre-application enquiry which is free of charge, requesting their formal and considered comments based upon an ammended / reduced barn size with its location, appearance, materials etc.
Understand you must be fuming...be very interesting to hear how you get on though.
Why don't you get back to the planners and ask them what size of building would be acceptable to them? and what criteria they apply for calcualating what sizes are acceptable for a certain size of plot and what aren't. They can't just say it's 'not reasonably nesessary' without backing it up with some justification.
One option would be to submit a pre-application enquiry which is free of charge, requesting their formal and considered comments based upon an ammended / reduced barn size with its location, appearance, materials etc.
Understand you must be fuming...be very interesting to hear how you get on though.
#5
Guest_Dave_*
Posted 10 January 2010 - 11:52
Guest_Dave_*
Guest_Dave_*
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- Guests
Hi Dave,
I bought 10 acres of land 5 years ago, it is AONB land. It has already got 8 stables, and a barn legally on it. It has permission for equestrian use for my horses. As i havnt done anything they are now a little derelict. I have a mobile home on the land which the council know about, they gave me day use for it only. This also has been trashed. The mobile has been on the land over 11 years, which can be proved. Should i apply for a certificate of lawfull use for the home. The reason is that i want to change it to a mobile log cabin and live on the land. I was thinkinking of breeding shire horses so i can live there with no trouble from the council. Would this be the answer, or can you suggest another way.
Thanks Roo
The caravan that you have had on the land for 11 years - for you to apply for an existing use certificate, it will need to have been lived in continuously for a period of 10 years and you must be living in it at the time you make the application for the certificate. If the planning application fails then you could still move a mobile home onto the land whilst you are engaged in the building and engineering works and repairs of the buildings already existing on the site. Regarding the shire horses - it would be difficult if not impossible to get planning permission under functional need because horses are not regarded as agricultual animals for planning purposes.
#6
Posted 12 January 2010 - 13:43
roo1707
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- Members
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- 2 posts
Chick
Hi Dave
Regarding the mobile home, would it be ok to change it for a 60x20 feet log cabin, as long as it is mobile.
I intend to live on the land for the 5 years, so as to repair my outbuildings and get an agricultural buisness up and running.
Also are the rules the same for land of AONB as mine is. Is 10 acres big enough to qualify for the scheme.
Thanks Roo
Regarding the mobile home, would it be ok to change it for a 60x20 feet log cabin, as long as it is mobile.
I intend to live on the land for the 5 years, so as to repair my outbuildings and get an agricultural buisness up and running.
Also are the rules the same for land of AONB as mine is. Is 10 acres big enough to qualify for the scheme.
Thanks Roo
#7
Guest_Dave_*
Posted 12 January 2010 - 18:24
Guest_Dave_*
Guest_Dave_*
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- Guests
The log cabin will be fine at any size so long as it is mobile, if you already have buildings on the land then the size doesn't matter. The AONB issue you must find out if the land has an article 4 direction on it if it has you cannot live on the land under permitted development as the permitted development rights would have removed by the order.
#8
Guest_sambo_*
Posted 13 January 2010 - 16:20
Guest_sambo_*
Guest_sambo_*
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- Guests
Hi David
Have spoken a few times via the phone but will use the forum as not to disturd the new book.
If land is in an AONB but hasn't had an article 4 direction enforced, could you still follow the book to eventually get planning ?
Does the same apply for other designated areas ?
Thanks
Samuel
Have spoken a few times via the phone but will use the forum as not to disturd the new book.
If land is in an AONB but hasn't had an article 4 direction enforced, could you still follow the book to eventually get planning ?
Does the same apply for other designated areas ?
Thanks
Samuel
#9
Posted 13 January 2010 - 18:29
charlie
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- Members
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- 1 posts
Chick
Hello to all
I too,, are new to the forum & must say the unknown information out there is amazing,,, Hat's off to David !!!
Having been forced a good 30 miles out of our area through demolishion of rented Equestrian facilities to 'the building of Private Housing'' We bought five Acres of land, which we have owned for the last seven years, it was bought purposely to graze & provide stabling for our horses and for us to be as self sufficient as possible by becoming a Small Holding.
We have gone through the mill and back with the Council as the land we bought was sold to us under false intentions, with the planning for Stabling Condition applying to the previous owner only,,,, which we found out way down the line, from trying to corresponde with the council. They was'nt the most helpful nor were they quick to answer any correspondance even after sending recorded delivery and hand delivering letters to the Main Planning Office.
This condition was not made clear to us or shown on our solicitor seaches, nor was this condition made clear by the Estate Agents upon purchase nor by the council upon puchase ,,, With this in mind we felt deflated and so confused as to who we should take the blame,,, being new to all this mayhem was scary and we just would'nt have known where to start and to be honest who is going to hold there hands up to admit to neglect, so we left it and evenually relised that we could'nt keep making the twice a day long jouneys and provide the care n attention to our animals without having access to hot water, first aid essential facilities, shelter etc so we decided to have a Static Caravan delivered for this purpose, which we evenually moved into and remain there at present.
I would love to hear or share any views from anybody else in this situation.
Any advice would be appreciated David, although i am in the process of purchasing your book
Many Thanks:)
I too,, are new to the forum & must say the unknown information out there is amazing,,, Hat's off to David !!!
Having been forced a good 30 miles out of our area through demolishion of rented Equestrian facilities to 'the building of Private Housing'' We bought five Acres of land, which we have owned for the last seven years, it was bought purposely to graze & provide stabling for our horses and for us to be as self sufficient as possible by becoming a Small Holding.
We have gone through the mill and back with the Council as the land we bought was sold to us under false intentions, with the planning for Stabling Condition applying to the previous owner only,,,, which we found out way down the line, from trying to corresponde with the council. They was'nt the most helpful nor were they quick to answer any correspondance even after sending recorded delivery and hand delivering letters to the Main Planning Office.
This condition was not made clear to us or shown on our solicitor seaches, nor was this condition made clear by the Estate Agents upon purchase nor by the council upon puchase ,,, With this in mind we felt deflated and so confused as to who we should take the blame,,, being new to all this mayhem was scary and we just would'nt have known where to start and to be honest who is going to hold there hands up to admit to neglect, so we left it and evenually relised that we could'nt keep making the twice a day long jouneys and provide the care n attention to our animals without having access to hot water, first aid essential facilities, shelter etc so we decided to have a Static Caravan delivered for this purpose, which we evenually moved into and remain there at present.
I would love to hear or share any views from anybody else in this situation.
Any advice would be appreciated David, although i am in the process of purchasing your book
Many Thanks:)
#10
Guest_Geo_*
Posted 06 February 2010 - 20:44
Guest_Geo_*
Guest_Geo_*
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- Guests
evening everybody,,,,well its been an eventful couple of weeks, asked for a meeting with chief planning officer county land agent and case officer which was held last week, i came out of it with the same impression i went in with, i got the permission for a building 30x60 and they said as long as i demonstrated what i said i was going to do they would give me the remainder of the square footage ie another 3200 sqft but i need to put the sheep on first, they are full of sh1111111111t they lie and i could swear they have no qualifications in the area of planning. Its going to cost me more money putting two buildings up that add up to 5000sqft rather than one and the larger building would have been much more practical than two of a smaller size, i suppose i shouldnt complain, i bought the 17 acres in Dec 09 and have just got planning through for the 30 x 60 building and its in an area of outstanding natural beauty, the building starts to go up in 2 weeks at that point im giving notice on my rented house and will be moving into a static caravan on site,,,, i can see it now the planners will be havings babies and i know i am going to have problems and they will defo tell me to remove it they always try to bully you and lie all the time, bearing in mind this will be my only home its a massive step but i have to have faith in the book and the assosiated caravan legislation quoted in it. I believe that the information in Davids book is correct, the only problem is that the planners have there own views on what is reasonably necessary and its always used to there own advantage, they blatantly misuse there powers and mis interpret the GPDO and all because they can, it doesnt matter if they are wrong if they say no you have one option,,,,to appeal and that can take six months, i would have dearly loved to have gone to appeal (didnt have the time)as in my case they were pretty blatant with the way they dealt with my application,,,they basically dealt with it as a FULL application rather than permitted Development, i have never met a planner yet that when you met him told him your idea and then said OOHHH yes thats a good idea,,,its just not going to happen,,,,they start off at NO and after great pain and frustration end up at maybe
#11
Posted 06 February 2010 - 21:23
shepie
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- Moderators
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- 1,073 posts
Lord of the Manor
Hi Geo
well done on getting this far with our friends the planners , why can`t you put up 2 bays 60 ft wide and 15 ft long then later when they agree to alowing the other 3200 sqft just add on the other bays to make one large shed , did they stipulate two seperate sheds ? , i know you will have to leave the end out of the shed but hey you don`t want to finish it for 5 years do you
shepie
well done on getting this far with our friends the planners , why can`t you put up 2 bays 60 ft wide and 15 ft long then later when they agree to alowing the other 3200 sqft just add on the other bays to make one large shed , did they stipulate two seperate sheds ? , i know you will have to leave the end out of the shed but hey you don`t want to finish it for 5 years do you
shepie
#12
Posted 06 February 2010 - 22:17
surreydodger
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- Book Owners
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- 1,208 posts
Agricultural Planning Advisory Service
- LocationWest Sussex
Good luck Geo. Its heartening to see you standing up to the planning officers and I wish you every success.
I got my plans all printed off today and hope to send them in next week. The fun will then begin in earnest
I got my plans all printed off today and hope to send them in next week. The fun will then begin in earnest
#13
Posted 08 February 2010 - 10:51
Mountain View
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- Book Owners
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- 192 posts
Piglet
Well done Geo! How long from start to finish did it take to get this response?
Also with a barn you are able to increase the size without planning 10% of its size annually. That should help in 5 years too, shouldn't it?
I am still in the midst of my planning application which todate has taken 2 years and 11 months and hasn't been in front of anyone yet as the Officer has loads of queries! But I have the patience of a saint and the tenancity of a terrier! I WILL get a barn and make a living from my land! 
Good luck to you.
Also with a barn you are able to increase the size without planning 10% of its size annually. That should help in 5 years too, shouldn't it?
I am still in the midst of my planning application which todate has taken 2 years and 11 months and hasn't been in front of anyone yet as the Officer has loads of queries! But I have the patience of a saint and the tenancity of a terrier! I WILL get a barn and make a living from my land!
Good luck to you.
#14
Guest_Dave_*
Posted 08 February 2010 - 12:05
Guest_Dave_*
Guest_Dave_*
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Hi you can only enlarge the barn once by 10% under permitted development.
#15
Posted 08 February 2010 - 12:39
Mountain View
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- 192 posts
Piglet
Hi you can only enlarge the barn once by 10% under permitted development.
Oh
