25 replies to this topic

[small holdings]

hi, i have had a touring caravan on my 9 acre land for over four years, can i change it to a static without any trouble from the council. thanks

[surreydodger]

A mobile home/static and a caravan are the same thing in planning rules. If you have planning permission to site the caravan then you have permission to site a static

[small holdings]

i have not got planning permission, just never took it off, appealed to the courts and never heared any thing since, that was four years ago

[admin]

If you change the caravan to a static then people might notice. It would certainly arouse suspicion that you were living on the land, depending upon placement and vigilence of neighbours. Who knows.. you might get away with it.

Legally, you need to have been living in a caravan for 10 years continuously (without any kind of gap) in order to get permission for it to be there.

Just having the caravan on site for 4 years hasn't really gained you anything legally. They could enforce at any time and make you move it.

[Cornish Gems]

We cannot see whether the caravan is just sited there, which you are allowed for certain reasons, or whether you are actually using it for long-term habitation. Please would you elucidate?

[sodbuster]

Hello forum.There has been some debate on the forum regarding registering for council tax once the caravan is on the land and PD has been granted. Problem is when you leave your previous address the council want to know WHERE you are moving to. Do you inform them? Where does the forum stand on registering given that they want to know where you are moving to?
Thanks

SB

[shepie]

Hi Sodbuster
I think you would be fine to tell them where you have gone, as if they find out where you are and how long you have been there they would want the council tax back dated anyway , and the two departments don`t seem to talk to each other anyway( tax / planning ) and paying council tax would be in your farour with the surrounding neighbours or even look good when you apply for the 3 yrs temp or a permenant dwelling i should think .

Shepie

[sodbuster]

Thanks Shepie.Sorry about the delay.Sounds right
SB

[RichardD]

My oh my oh my! there are more questions than your initial question to extract sufficient detail to give you any meaningful advice. I note you earlier said you made some appeal to the courts? in relation to what? was that after being prosecuted for not complying with an enforcement notice?

If there was an enforcement notice did you appeal against it? what was the outcome of the appeal decision? - if this is the result of any formal action by the LPA then the enforcement notice lasts forever - you can't rely on any time limit. What's this 4 years nonsense about anyway!

A caravan is a chattel, the siting of a caravan on agricultural land for the purposes incidental to the agricultural use of the land does not require planning permission.

Living in a caravan on agricultural land WILL require planning permission although there are some circumstances where under Pt 5 of the General Permitted Development Order permitted development MAY apply for the duration of perhaps a seasonal agricultural use or some other operational development.

Council Tax is least of your problems - unless you already have a planning permission to reside on site (which you don't appear to have).

[small holdings]

hi. further to your comment above, I really do not know what you are on about! my question and only question was, can you put a static caravan on your land for making drinks and being comfortable. but not to live in, really don't know what you are going on about, did not even mention council tax !!1

[small holdings]

My oh my oh my! there are more questions than your initial question to extract sufficient detail to give you any meaningful advice. I note you earlier said you made some appeal to the courts? in relation to what? was that after being prosecuted for not complying with an enforcement notice?

If there was an enforcement notice did you appeal against it? what was the outcome of the appeal decision? - if this is the result of any formal action by the LPA then the enforcement notice lasts forever - you can't rely on any time limit. What's this 4 years nonsense about anyway!

A caravan is a chattel, the siting of a caravan on agricultural land for the purposes incidental to the agricultural use of the land does not require planning permission.

Living in a caravan on agricultural land WILL require planning permission although there are some circumstances where under Pt 5 of the General Permitted Development Order permitted development MAY apply for the duration of perhaps a seasonal agricultural use or some other operational development.

Council Tax is least of your problems - unless you already have a planning permission to reside on site (which you don't appear to have).

[elegantstorm]

Simple answer - no

[small holdings]

hi, am I right to understand that you can not have a caravan on your land/field to take shelter and make drinks, while tending to your horses and chickens. thankyou.

[boiow]

If you are working on your land , you can have a caravan for teabreaks/ health and safety etc.   It is in fact a legal requirement that this is provided if the council start to query it.  We did this to our council several years ago and they soon backed off.  1973 health and safety at work act ( or something like that)

[small holdings]

Thankyou for your reply.

[rjr1975]

It also depends how close you live to the land in question. They may say that for example: if your only half a mile away you don't need to have these facilities on site. Also dependant on what works are carried out you may need extra facilities. The human rights act also helps. If its just to check chickens and horses then I doubt they would allow it. You would need to get a bit more going on to show the "need" for one. First aid storage, toilet facilities, if you have pregnant staff you need to be able for them to lie down!! If you get wet during "work" you need to be able to dry out. Just tell them more than "tending horses and chickens" 

Try not to mention horses if you can, as horses are not agricultural animals, and that opens a bigger can of worms!!

[small holdings]

aw, thankyou for your reply, very helpful, x

[RichardD]

My original response to your post was made in the threads leading to 16 May 2012: I did not 're-post' my reply - and I have not engaged with this forum for some time - it seems to have taken you an extortionately long time to querying my earlier post and you have not answered any of the questions I posed.

 

If there is no other impediment then the placing of a caravan on land as a place of rest and shelter is incidental to the agricultural use of the land and as such it is an agricultural chattel. No planning permission is required for that.

 

In your post of 6 Feb 2012 you said - i have not got planning permission, just never took it off, appealed to the courts and never heared any thing since, that was four years ago

 

That implies there has been some formal action to which you made an appeal? if that is so then there may be some other legal impediment that you need to address in order to 'enjoy' the use of a caravan on the land.

 

Send me a private message with more detail (and it would help if you answered my initial questions) and I will offer you some useful advice.

 

And if you read the earlier posts you will note that another contributor had first mentioned the issue regarding Council tax (which is irrelevant for the purpose of using a caravan as a rest room).

 

Also if this matter is still rumbling on after all this time then your local planning authority is either incompetent or very very tolerant!

[liveandletlive]

I would like to add to this post rather than start a new one.

We have a small holding where a few goats and chickens are kept a few fields and a veg garden etc. It holds various agricultural buildings all of which have planning permission from over 35 years ago and many are currently in need of repair and repair work is ongoing. I arrived at our land to find a card on the gate from a planning enforcement officer. I contacted the officer via email and was told that they have recieved information about permanent residential use on the site (I am aware stable land owners a short distance away have had a residential dwelling application turned down and they shared this information with the planning enforcement officer during his visit- we have never spoken to them in my life and they visit their horses briefly each day) and wish to arrange a site inspection to ensure there is no breach of planning legistaltion. I do own a mobile caravan since it was purchased in 2008 that is left on the land but in all honesty it is not lived in.

 

Since my separation/ divorce 2009 I had to sell the vehicle that was used to tow it and I kept the caravan. It has been stayed in over the years when I have had a summer camping party with friends and its main use now has been to shower and dry off dogs after exercising and training them daily on the land but that is the extent of the occupancy. It holds some camping gear as it it dry and unlike other areas it is rodent free. My Family does indiviaually spend a good deal of time on the land due to the hobbies of keeping the aminals and also towards the ongoing maintainence and total renovation of classic cars 6 of which are garaged there along with 2 classic tractors.

 

The site does have enforcement notices in relation to a static caravan at the site used as a permanent residence which I do recall being accurate over 30 years ago and the occupants were eventually allocated a local authority property housing a short distance away. I do not have copies of the enforcement notices, I assume I can get a copy if I request it?

 

We moved the caravan over the weekend, it remains on site but we have been meaning to move it anyway for the sake of the tyres and brakes ceasing etc. My plan is to sell it in the spring/summer and already have a caravan sales chap inline to assist with this (I hate selling things) as it really is wasted sat here and not used.

 

I am happy for them to come and take a look at it but I don't want them to come snooping around, I feel anxious about anything official hence sounding the situation out with you kind folk.

 

Thanks for reading.

[billie]

If you or anyone else are working on the land, then the health and safety at work act applies regardless of where you live.
Also if you are carrying out repairs to existing buildings you are entitled to live on site whilst doing so.
Courtesy of the caravan act 1960.