9 replies to this topic

[Edward]

Hi my husband and I are buying some land (2 fields totalling 2 acres). We have already made a pre planning appllcation to the council for 'change of use' so we can live there but have been told we have a weak case and are likely to get a refusal. We bought your book so we can strengthen our case before we commit any money but still are confused. We realise that 2 acres is not enough for a official small hollding but we would like to start small and there may be an opportunity to buy/rent more in the future. We are local to the area, have a 5 year old and like a fellow forum messenger, are not in this for the short term just to get a 'nice house and garden'

I am a florist, textiler and artist and John is a welder. Our original plan was to use the land to grow materials, build a couple of small workshops and rear (critically) Rare Breed sheep for wool and breeding. We would only have maximum 6 so would sell the sheep as numbers increased. We also want to incubate and raise chickens from eggs (for the same reasons as the sheep). Rare breed meat is apparently much nicer for eating and can get a better price. I also am training to be an art therapist so wanted to host workshops for small groups or individuals. Since buying your book, we have had thoughts on how to strengthen our application by opening an animal sanctuary rescuing, then hand raising, orphaned lambs (and the chicken/duck egg incubation) to satisfy the functional test (funded by charitable donations and the sale of the animals later for breeding and food chain when older). A petting zoo to run with the art therapy workshops for adults and children (viability test) and the horticulture (flowers, foliage for floristry, herbs and maybe Xmas trees), welding (gatemaking, seats, animal pens, etc), art and textiles for the other tests.

We would like to know if in your experienced opinion, we would have a stronger case now and also we would like to know where to start. Do we first apply for the 28 day licence and start building a barn? Would it be better to wait until Spring (lambing season) before we order our small twin unit mobile home? Do we just carry on anyway and answer questions later?

Thanks Vicky and John

[surreydodger]

Hi Edward,

Whereas it is possible to get planning on 2 acres for a dwelling, I suspect you are on a very steep uphill battle. All of the things you are proposing have merit in their own right but I'm not sure planning officers will see it that way.

It's one of those where you are running high risk for success. Persoanlly, I would follow the F2F book path more closely which stands a greater degree of achievement.

[gypsy boy]

in my limited experience do not apply for permission just pull on and do it, if you do apply and get refused, and you will, it is then illegal and they will have you of in a flash, make charcoal....

[che]

Hi Edward

PD or 28day rights are only available to units of 5 Hectares or more. So you would need to rent more land within 5 miles if you want to go down this route. I would not move on just yet as I think it would be a difficult to get your permission. Start out small and dont forget if you do too much youmay end up with the council saying you dont need a house cos youve managed so far without.
There are some examples in Planning Cases wher small sites such as yours have managed to achieve but they are fairly intensive enterprises.
Good luck and welcome to the site.

[Edward]

Thanks everyone for your help. Am still confused but thinking now we'll buy the land (it belongs to friends and they're holding it for us) and start buiding a barn and see what happens then. We're not confident haviing a big acreage and would rather start small like this. We can't run the enterprises we have in mind without living on the land and so intend to prove that to the council but will wait until they approach us. Will keep looking on this forum as already found some good tips. Brilliant site, well done*****

[Andrewaz]

I really don't want to sound negative.... but we have 5.1 hectares & are about to buy some more, have 20 breeding ewes, 2 rams, up to 15 lambs at any one time (Dorset Horns so lambing happens 3 times a year) 1 boar, 5 sows, 2 gilts, currently 22 piglets/finishers, 250 hens, 25 ducks, 7 breeding geese, grow veg in 2 large poly-tunnels on 0.6 of a hectare, 20 beehives, raise pure bred chickens for sale as breeding stock (so heat lamps, incubators, young chicks etc)........and still the planners say we do not have enough to warrant living here!
Plus they say we cannot have permitted development rights because we do not have a lawful dwelling on the land!!!(we're fighting this).
To have a dwelling you must demonstrate that there needs to be a full-time worker on the farm doing agricultural stuff, and a need to be available at all times primarily for the purposes of animal welfare, and I'm not sure how this fits with your other committments etc. I also don't think that 2 acres will be enough for your proposed enterprise.....6 ewes alone will need 2 acres good pasture with lambs.

Be under no illusion, it is very, very tough, and we have no young children to care for.

Suggest you start off with animals on the land, without thinking of living there, and develop things gradually. It takes a couple of years to get to understand your plot anyway & what it and you are capable of.

[Cornish Gems]

Andrewaz, I cannot understand where your planners are coming from as under
The Town and Country Planning Act.

There is no requirement to have a dwelling on agricultural or forestry land, for General Permitted Development.

Unless of course there is an Article IV undertaking on your land, this will prohibit GPD. Or it is part of a National Park or such like.

However you should have been advised this by the council or if it has been on for a time it should have come to light when you purchased the land.

Hope this helps.

Phill

[surreydodger]

Hi Andrewaz, and welcome to the forum

Remember that planning officers do not always know what they are on about. That must be clarified in that at other times they do so this is where it is important to know the facts.

[Cornish Gems]

We bought your book so we can strengthen our case before we commit any money but still are confused. We realise that 2 acres is not enough for a official small hollding but we would like to start small and there may be an opportunity to buy/rent more in the future.

We are pleased to learn that you have bought the book. Please would you now send a message to one of the Moderators with the appropriate password so that you can be classed as a Book Owner and thus have access to all the advice which is available in the Planning Permission Advice Forums. The relevant password is the last word on the page numbered 2 in the book.

We look forward to welcoming you to the full community.

[Groundhog]

Andrewaz
Suggest you have adequate functional need,your Dorset Horns if you split them into groups and regulate their breeding cycle so you effectively have sheep lambing 3 times in 2 years but also throughout the year your poultry if you are raising youngstock as you mention need heat which needs monitoring on welfare grounds and fire risk.