12 replies to this topic

[LITTLERIDSDALE]

I think i may have found the perfect plot no restrictions at all apart from an overge of 50% clawback on grant of full pp, its 16.33 acres for guide price of £60,00. The point being i need to weigh up the pros and cons here, if i bought a plot with no restrictions at all it is going to be much more than £60 grand and with no land at all and i could really see myself living there it's so perfect for the polytunnels even my dad admits that but theres not much time to do much thinking as it's informal tender on the 27th April?

Advice what are your thoughts?

[shepie]

Hi Littleridsdale what is the going rate for land in your area ? have they just set the price low on the informal tender to attract people ? , 50% claw back on what exactly the value of land now £30.000 or as a whole once planning is granted £200.000 ?

Hope this is not the case but what seems a little now may become a lot later ,even too much to afford , good luck either way .

Shepie

[che]

Agree with Shepie . Bin down this road attracted by a low price we exceeded the guide price but then come the calls trying to get you to increase the bids. The estate agents will wring every last penny out of it. Planning permission should add at least £100.000 to the value maybe more. So the starting point for this land is realistically £110,000 the inevitable bidding war will increase this.

[Cornish Gems]

We can only agree with what has been said previously, we would like to ask.

Full PP for what? How long is the clawback valid for ie 10- 20 -50years? And is the clawback on the purchase price or on the increased land value? We came across one where the clawback was on the purchase price.

If the full PP is for a dwelling then what would be the situation if you built your barn and polytunnel and had temp permission for a dwelling and you sold it?

As the barns are on 28 day notice and the polytunnel also the dwelling only temp you could make a killing as you will have increased the value to £200,000 or thereabouts with no Full PP.

If you could sell and move to bigger better location.

We assume you have done all the checks ie floodplain etc, as this somtimes reduces the land value, and also reduces your permitted works.

CG

[Groundhog]

I think i may have found the perfect plot no restrictions at all apart from an overge of 50% clawback on grant of full pp, its 16.33 acres for guide price of £60,00. The point being i need to weigh up the pros and cons here, if i bought a plot with no restrictions at all it is going to be much more than £60 grand and with no land at all and i could really see myself living there it's so perfect for the polytunnels even my dad admits that but theres not much time to do much thinking as it's informal tender on the 27th April?

Advice what are your thoughts?

Think carefully clawback could involve major complications as others have said,especially if you go for temp dwelling,remember solicitors are £250 an hour

[jav]

Hi

I would say go for it, we were in the same position and havn't looked back !

We have a 25% clawback on our land and were told by the solicitors it means 25% back of the land (Sguare acarage) value of
the area you are building with planning.

So whatever size dwelling it would be - value of that plot with planning.

You have already bought the land - you don't pay for it twice, just plot !

But we have taken loads of pictures, as bare land before all our builds. (solicitors advice).
As it was we paid £70.000 for 17 acres - and land near us now is going for double that.
So we feel we are living our dream, and paying in 2 stages.

Hope that helps Jav

[che]

Hi

I would say go for it, we were in the same position and havn't looked back !

We have a 25% clawback on our land and were told by the solicitors it means 25% back of the land (Sguare acarage) value of
the area you are building with planning.

So whatever size dwelling it would be - value of that plot with planning.

You have already bought the land - you don't pay for it twice, just plot !

But we have taken loads of pictures, as bare land before all our builds. (solicitors advice).
As it was we paid £70.000 for 17 acres - and land near us now is going for double that.
So we feel we are living our dream, and paying in 2 stages.

Hope that helps Jav

Hi Jav,

You seem to have got a good deal with your land but as any PP would be linked to the whole area via 106 agreement the development plot would be worth more than on a smaller plot. By the same token the 106 agreement would in itself reduce the value of the development.
Not sure but does your permitted development trigger payment or is it limited to residential?
It certainly is a growing area in planning terms might be worth getting this book fromthe library.

http://www.amazon.co...DMVE71WQDK7Q5K

Dave C

[jav]

Hi Dave C

It's linked to full residential planning, all of the farm building or barns are linked to agricultural, so they are fine.
Down here in South Wales it seems to be the norm !

Jav

[Cornish Gems]

Hi Littleridsdale - The Book does say that land with any kind of clawback should be avoided and indeed Dave himself has said on this forum that one should look elsewhere.

However, at the end of the day, it really depends on what the other benefits are regarding the land. Parcels of land of the right size for the F2F route are hard to come by and it is all very well saying, 'rent the extra' but that too can be hard to find, especially within the necessary 5 mile radius. Another common problem can be access - one cannot sell produce at the farm gate without problems unless there is unlikely to be any obstructions. We need to keep the planners from deciding that we are causing any kind of problem, otherwise they will try to interfere with us and make life difficult for us, as if it isn't hard enough for us already! The biggest problem we came across in our search was to do with streams and rivers - so many of them were deemed to be part of a flood plain and therefore the Environment Agency would not have allowed us to have any kind of building on the land at all - not even an ark! We have yet to come across a successful case against this ruling.

We would therefore advise you to ensure that all the other boxes are 'ticked', and be absolutely certain exactly what the clawback means. Good luck in whatever you decide.

CG

[LITTLERIDSDALE]

[quote name='Cornish Gems' timestamp='1303373360' post='6835']
We can only agree with what has been said previously, we would like to ask.

Full PP for what? How long is the clawback valid for ie 10- 20 -50years? And is the clawback on the purchase price or on the increased land value? We came across one where the clawback was on the purchase price.

If the full PP is for a dwelling then what would be the situation if you built your barn and polytunnel and had temp permission for a dwelling and you sold it?

As the barns are on 28 day notice and the polytunnel also the dwelling only temp you could make a killing as you will have increased the value to £200,000 or thereabouts with no Full PP.

If you could sell and move to bigger better location.

We assume you have done all the checks ie floodplain etc, as this somtimes reduces the land value, and also reduces your permitted works.

CG

Hi Cornish gems

The clawback, it just says subject to a development clawback of 50% for 25 years? im going to give the agents a ring to find out what exactly it means i just took it to mean the enhanced value of the land once pp was gained on the land as a whole plot, i dont know enough about overages so i really need to find out

I had allready thought the pd wouldn't affect the overage, i just wanted to weigh up the pros and cons its just most of the land down here either has the restrictions and is cheap or like the land i have seen is perfect and has a clawback every time and the land with planning permissions are just plots with no land i could realisticly be looking for years to really find the perfect plot and i don't really want to its long overdue for me.

I need to do the checks CG how do i go about it?

[Cornish Gems]

First question is about whether the estate agents have the full sales particulars or whether you have to contact vendors solicitors regarding tender information pack. This should include the results of local, water searches etc. Usually one has to pay something for this pack because it is quite large and the photocopying of it has to cost something.

Regarding flood plains, the following link can be helpful..

Environment Agency Flood Maps

When we became serious about a plot, then we actually went to the EA and they were very helpful. AND it was FOC!!

[surreydodger]

One thing you may want to consider doing is to check land values in the vicinity of the land you are enquiring about. Try and ascertain what the land values are without any overage clauses being attached.

It's not uncommon to find land being offered with an overage condition attached, is no cheaper than land free of any clawbacks. Unfottunately, not enough buyers check this out and end up paying the asking price or thereabouts. The result then is that selling agents tempt more vendors to sell with an overage attached as of course, the seller has more to gain and nothing to loose.

Because there are to many fools with money to burn, it puts you in a difficult position to bid the land down to a more realistic price. This is assuming the local land search are showing the value of your interested land to be overpriced with the overage attached.

I am not generally in favour of buying property with such conditions attached. You could suggest to the selling agent what price they would accept with no overage attached. This will at least let you see what they are asking for the land, relative to other land in the area without and overage.

The other thing is to get the term of overage reduced. 25 years is rather heavy in my humble opinion. 10 years should be considered more normal but this is a matter of where we start to get into land development and speculation.

You might also want to check if the overage is conditional on one uplift. Basically, if you improve the lands value by way of planning permission and/or development, you would hae to pay the 50% increase in the lands value (the uplift0. However, if you gain further enhancement value to the land say 20 years down the line with say another dwelling or barn, you will probably be liable again for another 50% uplift, though that will be calculated, less any previous uplifts.

So no, overages are never simple, the devil is in the small print as always and you should get a solicitor to check it out and confirm what obligations you may face in the future.

[Romany]

The other thing is to get the term of overage reduced. 25 years is rather heavy in my humble opinion. 10 years should be considered more normal but this is a matter of where we start to get into land development and speculation.

I've known clawbacks valid for 50 and 99 years!

Also, clawbacks aren't always based on pp for dwellings. My sister (I'm ashamed to say!) recently sold some land at auction with a clawback on any kind of business other than equestrian. She understands the new owner intends to run a breeding kennels rather than a livery yard and is expecting a payout if this goes ahead.

So it is indeed caveat emptor. Get the fine detail clarified before forging ahead.

Romany