21 replies to this topic

[KChally]

For Information, If anyone can do this cheaper please let me know. We have recalculated our costs and have come up with the following:

The following calculation is to feed a sow/gilt which is in pig and to raise these piglets to weaning at 8 weeks ( we have assumed an average litter of 9 piglets)

Sow/giltfeed cost per lb = 13.5p
Feed sow/gilt for 115 days @ 6lb per day - 690lbs x 13.5p = £93.15

after farrowing 9 piglets sow/gilt feed for 56 days @ 9lb per day - 504lbs x 13.5p = £68.04

9 Piglets:
1 - 3 weeks no hard feed just sows milk
week 4-challenger 4 feed (milk based, high protein) 2 bags per litter £30
5 - 8 weeks ad lib piglet feed guess 9lb per day for 28 days - 252lbs x 15p = £37.

Iron injections £28 (has to be thrown away after 30 days)
Wormer £4.50
AI Semen (assuming you have no boar) £30 - of course it would be more economical to have a boar if you had a few sows/gilts

TOTAL COST £291.49
These figures do not take into account: vets fees/bedding/water/fuel/heat lamp electric/birtt notifications or losses

divide £291.49 by 9 = £32.38 to raise 1 piglet to 8 weeks for weaning. If you sold that piglet at £40 which seems to be the going rate you would only make £8. If you had 60 sows producing 18 piglets per year and made a profit of £8 per piglet you would make £8640 per year.

With current corn prices set to rise even further and people leaving the pig industry will each piglet even attain the £40 price tag.
Does anyone think this is viable?

KChally

[Groundhog]

For Information, If anyone can do this cheaper please let me know. We have recalculated our costs and have come up with the following:

The following calculation is to feed a sow/gilt which is in pig and to raise these piglets to weaning at 8 weeks ( we have assumed an average litter of 9 piglets)

Sow/giltfeed cost per lb = 13.5p
Feed sow/gilt for 115 days @ 6lb per day - 690lbs x 13.5p = £93.15

after farrowing 9 piglets sow/gilt feed for 56 days @ 9lb per day - 504lbs x 13.5p = £68.04

9 Piglets:
1 - 3 weeks no hard feed just sows milk
week 4-challenger 4 feed (milk based, high protein) 2 bags per litter £30
5 - 8 weeks ad lib piglet feed guess 9lb per day for 28 days - 252lbs x 15p = £37.

Iron injections £28 (has to be thrown away after 30 days)
Wormer £4.50
AI Semen (assuming you have no boar) £30 - of course it would be more economical to have a boar if you had a few sows/gilts

TOTAL COST £291.49
These figures do not take into account: vets fees/bedding/water/fuel/heat lamp electric/birtt notifications or losses

divide £291.49 by 9 = £32.38 to raise 1 piglet to 8 weeks for weaning. If you sold that piglet at £40 which seems to be the going rate you would only make £8. If you had 60 sows producing 18 piglets per year and made a profit of £8 per piglet you would make £8640 per year.

With current corn prices set to rise even further and people leaving the pig industry will each piglet even attain the £40 price tag.
Does anyone think this is viable?

KChally

Am not familiar with variable cost prices for pigs,feed prices are affecting all areas,have you looked at straights ie Barley Oats etc(cant remember which ones Pigs can utilize) buy direct from a farmer in dumpy bags.Maize silage is another option if you have a local farmer that might like you have on a bag basis.Whey but probably not very easy to get in small amounts unless you have a dairy close by.Any food producer near by ie cheese products that mght have any byproducts you can obtain(I dont mean food waste).
In your workings out there are no feed costs for the sows dry period when you would still be feeding her Sorry another few quid gone !
Can you carry the weaners on and market them yourselves to a heavier weight or end product ? Work out the Gross Margin on a hog roast youwill be amazed altho seasonal if you have any hotels or conference centres near by it might be worth a flier.Set up cost ie reasonable Health and Hygiene not to complecated you can also rent out the machine separatly,supply the carcass separatly,price for the whole package or sell individually.
Looking at about £700 to get one in this neck of the woods.
Just a thought

[KChally]

Am not familiar with variable cost prices for pigs,feed prices are affecting all areas,have you looked at straights ie Barley Oats etc(cant remember which ones Pigs can utilize) buy direct from a farmer in dumpy bags.Maize silage is another option if you have a local farmer that might like you have on a bag basis.Whey but probably not very easy to get in small amounts unless you have a dairy close by.Any food producer near by ie cheese products that mght have any byproducts you can obtain(I dont mean food waste).
In your workings out there are no feed costs for the sows dry period when you would still be feeding her Sorry another few quid gone !
Can you carry the weaners on and market them yourselves to a heavier weight or end product ? Work out the Gross Margin on a hog roast youwill be amazed altho seasonal if you have any hotels or conference centres near by it might be worth a flier.Set up cost ie reasonable Health and Hygiene not to complecated you can also rent out the machine separatly,supply the carcass separatly,price for the whole package or sell individually.
Looking at about £700 to get one in this neck of the woods.
Just a thought

Hi Groundhog,

Yes, I worked these figures out quickly last night and have missed a couple of things ie after farrowing we disinfect the stables (extra cost). We tend to serve our sows almost immediately after farrowing and hoping they catch straight away there should only be an extra small cost with feed(dry period) but still, it is an extra cost.

We feed bag feed as we then know the animal is getting all the correct nutrients, whereas feeding straights would be quite difficult to make sure all the correct vitamins/minerals were there in the right quantities. Pig feed is quite high in certain minerals.
Also with the number of animals you would need to make the money, imagine how much straight feed you would need to collect from here there and everywhere and where would you store it all (extra fuel cost - our feed is all delivered)

I have been asked by a new member some questions relating to what we are doing on our land as he would like to do much the same on a similar amount of acreage (we only have 6 acres) so this is why I have put this info on the forum, to try to help people see it is not that easy to make money out of pigs. We dont sell any weaners, we cant make enough money out of doing that.

We HAVE to add value which is why we grow all our pigs to full weight, then sell the meat at Farmers Markets, events, sell to farm shops, delis etc. We do the whole thing, breeding, marketing and selling (although we have decided against hog roasts due to the fact that you need to make sure it is cooked properly and we dont want to make anyone ill - hubby has been ill twice thru hog roasts)

Some of this I suppose might sound a bit negative, but you have to be realistic and do your sums before you sell your home and move onto your land. Im not saying it is impossible, its not cos we are doing it. As I have said in previous posts, we are in our last year in our mobile home and have to make the figures this year (its crunch time). Although I havent purchased Daves book, as we only have 6 acres, Im sure it is a great starting point, but at the end of the day you HAVE to make the money.

KChally

[admin]

Just wanted to wish you good luck on making the tests this year. This might be a bit selfish but I'd say to stick with what is best for the animal (and therefore taste) and don't sacrifice quality for cost. I think people would pay a premium over the mass produced stuff that hits supermarkets. I know I certainly would anyway, especially if it was marketed as prime piggy and everything done to a top level of quality. I'm getting sick of supermarket jacket potatos that are perfectly shaped but too small to be worth worrying about (sorry rant over ).

Just a quick plug of the book though. It covers not only the planning aspects but also these viability tests. There are sections on each animal, likely returns on investment etc. Might make a nice early Christmas present.

One thing it does mention is that you need to go with whatever is going to make you money in that one year out of three. You might need to sell your soul and do something you hate just to make the required income. You can always switch back to doing what you want after that year.

[KChally]

Just wanted to wish you good luck on making the tests this year. This might be a bit selfish but I'd say to stick with what is best for the animal (and therefore taste) and don't sacrifice quality for cost. I think people would pay a premium over the mass produced stuff that hits supermarkets. I know I certainly would anyway, especially if it was marketed as prime piggy and everything done to a top level of quality. I'm getting sick of supermarket jacket potatos that are perfectly shaped but too small to be worth worrying about (sorry rant over ).

Just a quick plug of the book though. It covers not only the planning aspects but also these viability tests. There are sections on each animal, likely returns on investment etc. Might make a nice early Christmas present.

One thing it does mention is that you need to go with whatever is going to make you money in that one year out of three. You might need to sell your soul and do something you hate just to make the required income. You can always switch back to doing what you want after that year.

Thanks for that Steve. You are right, we wont be changing the way we feed our pigs as we think we have got it just about right ie amount of fat on bacon etc. We do need to try and reduce our costs but again, we have a premium product that sells very well (kiss of death now ive said that) and we wont compromise that by trying cheaper feeds.

I also have to say that I am considering buying the book even tho it really does not relate to us. I bet I could find some useful titbits that will help us along

KChally

[Groundhog]

Thanks for that Steve. You are right, we wont be changing the way we feed our pigs as we think we have got it just about right ie amount of fat on bacon etc. We do need to try and reduce our costs but again, we have a premium product that sells very well (kiss of death now ive said that) and we wont compromise that by trying cheaper feeds.

I also have to say that I am considering buying the book even tho it really does not relate to us. I bet I could find some useful titbits that will help us along

KChally

Straights are not cheaper feeds,just the ingredients the mill uses,feed costs can be reduced by this means but appreciate it might not be convienient.Think you post is a good highlight to production costs

[Wiseowl]

We HAVE to add value which is why we grow all our pigs to full weight, then sell the meat at Farmers Markets, events, sell to farm shops, delis etc.

KChally

I was going to reply, after reading your first post, that adding value (free-range, locally produced, direct sales) - is probably the only way to be viable on the sort of figures producers are faced with.

[KChally]

I was going to reply, after reading your first post, that adding value (free-range, locally produced, direct sales) - is probably the only way to be viable on the sort of figures producers are faced with.

Yes Wiseowl, you are right. We have to aim at the higher end of the market where ethics play a strong part in what we do. The ethical side of it is actually very important to us, we need to know that our animals have the best life possible. Sometimes amongst all the planning issues that are discussed on this forum we can forget that our animals play a very important part in what we are trying to achieve. Without them, ultimately we dont stand a chance.

KChally

[KChally]

Im surprised there hasnt been more replies to this topic. I hope I havent put you all off the idea of keeping pigs

[KChally]

Someone told me today that he went to an auction in Cumbria and cross bred pigs were fetching only £5 each and hardly anyone was buying them. Its no wonder then that pig farmers are losing £21 per head!!!

[porkchop]

hello

your pig production costs are about right but why are you not taking the piglets up to 18 - 26 weeks, depending on breed, and you could sell prvately or to a local butcher, restaurents etc, i get about £200 -250 for a 45 - 55kilo dead weight tamworth carcase, it will never make you a millionaire but its not bad, i know some web sites charge over £300 for a similar dead weight carcase, also have you tried selling to hog roast businesses and even suckling pig, 4 - 8weeks old, i know it is hard as pork prices are right down due to the imported rubbish from places like denmark, poland hungary etc but if you can convince people to buy good old british rare breed they will definately taste the difference, i mean my pork is cheaper than tesco's at £2.50 - £3.50 per kilo

cheers

dave the pigman

easby hogs

[shepie]

Hi Kchally

The feed prices you have put on here are spot on and rising but as you say and do it`s not even worth considering selling weaners i have just acquired a 3yr old Berkshire sow and boar, despite rising feed costs and seeing Berkshire weaners selling for £11 / head two weeks ago in the local mart , mine are pedigree and registered so i am hoping to go for breeding gilts with the very best ones and rare breed pork with the rest selling at a premium , my lambs are selling so fast i haven't even had one for myself this time and despite starting lambing yesterday i have orders in already !!!! , the customers are out there and willing to pay for good quality food.

Wish you luck this year and all you can do is go for it in a big way ,it`s going to be a good summer so you won`t need much sleep due to the extra energy from the sun and the pigs wont need to eat too much as they will be wallowing all day long

Shepie

[KChally]

Hi Kchally

The feed prices you have put on here are spot on and rising but as you say and do it`s not even worth considering selling weaners i have just acquired a 3yr old Berkshire sow and boar, despite rising feed costs and seeing Berkshire weaners selling for £11 / head two weeks ago in the local mart , mine are pedigree and registered so i am hoping to go for breeding gilts with the very best ones and rare breed pork with the rest selling at a premium , my lambs are selling so fast i haven't even had one for myself this time and despite starting lambing yesterday i have orders in already !!!! , the customers are out there and willing to pay for good quality food.

Wish you luck this year and all you can do is go for it in a big way ,it`s going to be a good summer so you won`t need much sleep due to the extra energy from the sun and the pigs wont need to eat too much as they will be wallowing all day long

Shepie

Hi Porkchop,

Thanks for your comments. We dont sell any of our animals to anyone, as we take them all to full weight and slaughter at about 10 - 11 months. We struggle to keep producing enough for our needs and this is the year we have to make the big bucks, to get permanent residency on our land so we are breeding to full capacity.

Hi Shepie,

Hope you are well. You are definitely right in going for pure bred registered animals. The meat is far superior and will sell at a premium as it will be a rare breed. In our experience the general public are definitely wanting this. Dont know much about Berkshires. Has your sow already had litters as she is 3 years of age? If not it may be difficult to get her in pig?

I have heard that lamb is selling for a fantastic price, have you thought about selling it at Farmers Markets aswell. We attend a few markets and as far as I can see very few stalls if any are selling lamb. There could possibly be an opening for you to pursue if you wanted to.

Actually lamb is my favourite meat, not pork. We were considering getting some, I think I mentioned it to you, but we really need to concentrate on our core product I think at this point in time.

Thanks for your good wishes. We need as much positive thought as we can get from everyone, as it is a hard slog. A good summer would help too as that puts people in a good mood. They may have more BBQs and want more of our sausages lol

By the way, whats sleep? hahaha

KChally

[shepie]

Hi Kchally

Yes my pig has had a couple of litters , one was 4 months ago so should be fine , as for lamb there isn't the same amount of money to be made on a small acreage as pigs / chickens etc but it will add to the diversity of a stall and add to the pot .

Shepie

[porkchop]

Hi Porkchop,

Thanks for your comments. We dont sell any of our animals to anyone, as we take them all to full weight and slaughter at about 10 - 11 months. We struggle to keep producing enough for our needs and this is the year we have to make the big bucks, to get permanent residency on our land so we are breeding to full capacity.

Hi Shepie,

Hope you are well. You are definitely right in going for pure bred registered animals. The meat is far superior and will sell at a premium as it will be a rare breed. In our experience the general public are definitely wanting this. Dont know much about Berkshires. Has your sow already had litters as she is 3 years of age? If not it may be difficult to get her in pig?

I have heard that lamb is selling for a fantastic price, have you thought about selling it at Farmers Markets aswell. We attend a few markets and as far as I can see very few stalls if any are selling lamb. There could possibly be an opening for you to pursue if you wanted to.

Actually lamb is my favourite meat, not pork. We were considering getting some, I think I mentioned it to you, but we really need to concentrate on our core product I think at this point in time.

Thanks for your good wishes. We need as much positive thought as we can get from everyone, as it is a hard slog. A good summer would help too as that puts people in a good mood. They may have more BBQs and want more of our sausages lol

By the way, whats sleep? hahaha

KChally

[porkchop]

Hi Porkchop,

Thanks for your comments. We dont sell any of our animals to anyone, as we take them all to full weight and slaughter at about 10 - 11 months. We struggle to keep producing enough for our needs and this is the year we have to make the big bucks, to get permanent residency on our land so we are breeding to full capacity.

Hi Shepie,

Hope you are well. You are definitely right in going for pure bred registered animals. The meat is far superior and will sell at a premium as it will be a rare breed. In our experience the general public are definitely wanting this. Dont know much about Berkshires. Has your sow already had litters as she is 3 years of age? If not it may be difficult to get her in pig?

I have heard that lamb is selling for a fantastic price, have you thought about selling it at Farmers Markets aswell. We attend a few markets and as far as I can see very few stalls if any are selling lamb. There could possibly be an opening for you to pursue if you wanted to.

Actually lamb is my favourite meat, not pork. We were considering getting some, I think I mentioned it to you, but we really need to concentrate on our core product I think at this point in time.

Thanks for your good wishes. We need as much positive thought as we can get from everyone, as it is a hard slog. A good summer would help too as that puts people in a good mood. They may have more BBQs and want more of our sausages lol

By the way, whats sleep? hahaha

KChally

hello kchally

you need a very detailed business plan, i have my own business plan which i can give you more details on, how many boars,sows and gilts do you have, i have 3 boars and 15 gilts sows which will give me up to 400 piglets per year, i think this is the target you will ned to aim for to make it a worthwhile business, i spent two weeks none stop doing my business plan and it covers everything and i hope it will worry the lpa when i issue it to them in a few weeks.

[Cornish Gems]

Porkchop - as we understand from what KChally has said previously on this forum, what she needs to do is make the necessary income THIS YEAR in order to pass the Financial Test. She already meets the Functional Need and SMD's to be able to apply for full planning permission. She is way ahead of a lot of us on this forum. She is not 'factory farming' but is specialising in a high-class product for which she has found a good market. What is upsetting for her is the fact that the price of feed has risen so much since last autumn.

From what you have said so far, it does not sound as though your situation has reached a similar level.

Well done on completing your Business Plan - did you use Dave's template?

CG

[porkchop]

Porkchop - as we understand from what KChally has said previously on this forum, what she needs to do is make the necessary income THIS YEAR in order to pass the Financial Test. She already meets the Functional Need and SMD's to be able to apply for full planning permission. She is way ahead of a lot of us on this forum. She is not 'factory farming' but is specialising in a high-class product for which she has found a good market. What is upsetting for her is the fact that the price of feed has risen so much since last autumn.

From what you have said so far, it does not sound as though your situation has reached a similar level.

Well done on completing your Business Plan - did you use Dave's template?

CG

hello mate

i did my own business plan prior to purchasing the book, my pigs are british rare breeds and i supply to a number of butchers and restaurents, so my produce is of high quality, what i am saying is that you need quite a high turn over of livestock to put a strong case, i have had my land and pigs for three years and have kept it small and managable as i do not live on the land, now i intend to increase the pig production and possibly employ someone part time and maybe full time, i hope the lpa see that i have been sensible and built my livestock and production up over the three years and they take my views seriously !

[KChally]

Hi Porkchop,

Thanks for your ideas and comments. CG is right, we have had our pigs (LOTS of them) for a number of years and have temporary residential permission, are living in a mobile home on our land and are in our final year of 3. The figures regarding the number of animals you must have are correct and it is possible to do on a small acreage.

The hardest thing to do in all of this is sell your meat. Getting enough outlets is very difficult and in our experience selling to butchers and restaurants does not work. It will not bring in enough income. You have to add value to your product. I put the figures for production on this site to try to help people as initially it all might seem easy to do, but believe me its not. Direct selling is definitely the best way to make the money, but it does involve a lot of extra work ie attending markets, delivering to shops etc. Dont forget all the advertising, printing costs etc.

We engaged the services of Planning Consultants and Agricultural Consultants to get our LPA permissions. I think you will probably find you will have to do the same, unless you keep your rented land and go down the 28 day permitted development way. Have you had any dealings yet with your LPA?

All the best anyway

KChally

[pigman]

Hi Kchally,

When you finalize your accounts remember to add the value of your livestock to your income......

have not had time to read all this post but eg.

Valuations for pedigree weaners may account for as mush as £85 each In Pigs Sows/ Gilts maybe worth around £450 each and even more if prize winners etc etc - there may be regional varaitions of course but they are Your stock and you know Your market so you know Your stocks value, dont you....

Good Luck