42 replies to this topic

[Burl]

Morning All
I have just had a mobile field shelter delivered and put in my field, the neighbours have all been mooching about to see what this wooden structure is etc.
I would imagine therefore I will recieve a visit from a planning officer shortly..
Can anyone let me know the definition of a mobile shelter etc ,also any known case law.
If I am armed with information and facts and case law I am hoping the Planner will just go away.
Its a purpose built steel framed shelter on wheels with towing frame . built off site buy a recognised firm.No foundations or utilities .
Many thanks
Burl

[surreydodger]

Hiya Burl,

If it mobile and being used for agricultural purposes (on agricultural designated land) then it is NOT illegal,,, and if it Reg or Patrick visits, they know these rules already

[markgoldwing]

Hiya Burl,

If it mobile and being used for agricultural purposes (on agricultural designated land) then it is NOT illegal,,, and if it Reg or Patrick visits, they know these rules already

hi check out the crap i am getting of the council i posted enforcement notice
hope you haven't a local councilor and an architect that's been dealing with the planning dpt for the last 20 years

[horse]

hi check out the crap i am getting of the council i posted enforcement notice
hope you haven't a local councilor and an architect that's been dealing with the planning dpt for the last 20 years

Where is it posted

[horse]

Morning All
I have just had a mobile field shelter delivered and put in my field, the neighbours have all been mooching about to see what this wooden structure is etc.
I would imagine therefore I will recieve a visit from a planning officer shortly..
Can anyone let me know the definition of a mobile shelter etc ,also any known case law.
If I am armed with information and facts and case law I am hoping the Planner will just go away.
Its a purpose built steel framed shelter on wheels with towing frame . built off site buy a recognised firm.No foundations or utilities .
Many thanks
Burl

has to moved every 28 days, but the council will not check they cant afford too

[olive]

has to moved every 28 days, but the council will not check they cant afford too

Can I ask where the 28 days comes from? I have been asked to demonstrate that 2 mobile shelters, a shipping container and a caravan can be moved and given 14 days to do so or face enforcement. These are on agricultural land and used for agricultural purposes.

[Groundhog]

has to moved every 28 days, but the council will not check they cant afford too

Where did you get that a mobile shelter has to be moved every 28days please

[boiow]

Can I ask where the 28 days comes from? I have been asked to demonstrate that 2 mobile shelters, a shipping container and a caravan can be moved and given 14 days to do so or face enforcement. These are on agricultural land and used for agricultural purposes.

there must be more to the story than that. surely not even planners are that vindictive.
you can always write to the county solicitor asking where the council stands legally on that position. the ombudsman might open up a case for you or even the threat that you will contact them might make them back off.
i would'nt except with a court order attempt to move the structures just to satisfy the planners. no way .

[che]

Can I ask where the 28 days comes from? I have been asked to demonstrate that 2 mobile shelters, a shipping container and a caravan can be moved and given 14 days to do so or face enforcement. These are on agricultural land and used for agricultural purposes.

Hi Olive,

There are two types of structures permenant and temporary. Permenant are fixed to the ground temporary are not. Temporary are structures capable of being moved.
Shipping containers are moved via fixings that allow them to be moved by cranes and hiabs. caravans have wheels and a tow hitch and field shelters normally have skids. As far as I know there is no stipulation as to how often these structures need to be moved. Ask your council for the legislation or case law that says it needs to be moved every 14 days. Static caravans have wheels but normally they will remain on site for many years without movement. This would appear to be a bluff by your LPA and there is a case posted on this site which was won on appeal and accepted that a mobile poultry unit would only normally be moved at the end of cycle ie 15 mnths.
On the face of it this is just another appauling case of abuse of power by an LPA. Members who critisise me in my dealings with WO should be aware that this is the type of topic that he ignores although he is clearly aware of the answers.
Sadly these type of posts are the norm and it saddens me to see people defend such a flawed system. Whilst WO chooses to critiisize the book whilst ignoring these abuses i will continue to draw the forums attention to his hidden agenda.
The description of a troll is posted elsewhere and is also available on google search. Such people do excist and we all have a right to decide where they stand on the issue. You are all aware of my stance there is only one person who could prove me wrong but he chooses to remain anonymous.
To me this is not about personalities it is about ideologies. Take the time to read our old posts and make up your own mind but be aware of the damage a troll can make to your cause. Yes the tit bits may be good but the negativity feeds in.
The vast majority of people on here wish to persue a dream armed with a fighting chance. In the past the planners have got away with the disgaceful behaviour outlined above. We are going some way to addressing the imbalance.
Trolls will from time to ntime attack this site with the intention of discrediting the book and forum. There reward will be if succesful is the freedom and ability to tell people to move there temp buildings within 14 days or face an enforcement notice.

Dave C

[olive]

there must be more to the story than that. surely not even planners are that vindictive.
you can always write to the county solicitor asking where the council stands legally on that position. the ombudsman might open up a case for you or even the threat that you will contact them might make them back off.
i would'nt except with a court order attempt to move the structures just to satisfy the planners. no way .

Thanks for your reply. There is not much more to it than this. I have got the LPA to admit that I am on agricultural, not mixed, land, I have sheep and ponies (used for grazing). They have also withdrawn their request for removal of a hardstanding as I have permitted development under section B GPDO with 9 acres. The shelters do have skids and are about to be used for lambing, they are standard 20' x 12', the caravan has wheels and a tow hitch and the container is 20' x 8' and stores hay. Even if I wanted to move them field conditions at the moment are unsuitable. The LPA insist that it is not good enough to know these structures are capable of being moved, they need records on file showing that they have been moved. I have asked them to quote what right they have to request movement.

Can I also thank the people who set up and contribute to this site, without you I would have surrendered months ago. Best wishes to you all.

[boiow]

stick to your guns, they will back down soon. i was reading a planning document the other day about section 215 agreements issued to policy enforcers and the thing that stuck in my mind was the emphasis on 'threats' rather than enforcement. they just want to intimidate you because believe it or not most people think that lpa's have the law on their side. when very often they are merely acting on 'opinion'.

[boiow]

stick to your guns, they will back down soon. i was reading a planning document the other day about section 215 agreements issued to policy enforcers and the thing that stuck in my mind was the emphasis on 'threats' rather than enforcement. they just want to intimidate you because believe it or not most people think that lpa's have the law on their side. when very often they are merely acting on 'opinion'.

i know, i know. someone is bound to ask. "wheres the link then"
http://www.seered.co.uk/sec215.htm and click on 'new guidance on 'best practice' for Councils in pursuing Section 215 cases.'  sec215_best_practice.pdf   508.82KB   27 downloads

[Burl]

stick to your guns, they will back down soon. i was reading a planning document the other day about section 215 agreements issued to policy enforcers and the thing that stuck in my mind was the emphasis on 'threats' rather than enforcement. they just want to intimidate you because believe it or not most people think that lpa's have the law on their side. when very often they are merely acting on 'opinion'.

I agree stay with it! we are photographed by neighbours , victimised by the council .We wil carry on ,the public like us our products sell and this is how and where we wish to live

[Groundhog]

Defra codes of Practice Soil Water Air relates to damage of soil and subsequent erosion and leaching along with run off from dung into water courses.Good farming practice is to move said structures when conditions allow and when needed to in relation to good farming practice.Health and welfare of pregnant animals is also relevant.Look on the Defra website for the above
Basically shelters are for animal welfare,container is for storage of animal feed and mobile is stockmans hut.Having said that I think any holding with a mass of moveable structures does not help,except when stating in a 28day notice for eraction of a barn that these will be removed(Dont mention the mobile)

[che]

Hi Olive,

Just managed to dig out the link to the appeal case for mobile poultry unit.

http://www.pcs.plann...ed Decision.pdf

be interesting to see what your LPA has to say about this one

Dave C

[surreydodger]

The LPA insist that it is not good enough to know these structures are capable of being moved, they need records on file showing that they have been moved. I have asked them to quote what right they have to request movement.

Hi Olive,

I would inform the LPA that as you have never been requested or required under any known law, that to this date, you have not kept any formal record of temporary building movements. I would then ask the LPA that in an effort to assist them and to help comply with any legal requirments, as they deem enforceable, that I will be happy to provide such records of future movements. I would ask that they provide the manner and style of how they want the records provided, would they be willing to attend every movement as a legal witness to the act and do they have any time periods that they would wish you to comply within, for each movement.

I would also enquire if this practice is being applied to every building capable of being moved across the LPA district as it would be unfair if you are the only one being forced into giving your time to such a practice. If it is being applied to every building of such a nature, then I would request to be able to see the records of such movements.

If the LPA are unable to comply with all the above requests, then I might be of the thought to ask them to meet me in court where I feel the may be a case of malpractice to answer

[olive]

Thanks for this I will take this line.

I have offered to take photos when next moving these structures but have been told to move them from their current footprint to alternative locations on the site, whatever this means. When they have been moved within 14 days they will re-visit the site.
Groundhog I have offered to remove these buildings completely but was still refused planning for a barn. Unfortunately I didnt appeal the decision.

Cheers

[olive]

Thanks for this I will take this line.

I have offered to take photos when next moving these structures but have been told to move them from their current footprint to alternative locations on the site, whatever this means. When they have been moved within 14 days they will re-visit the site.
Groundhog I have offered to remove these buildings completely but was still refused planning for a barn. Unfortunately I didnt appeal the decision.

Cheers

To up date on the above I received a letter today to apply for planning within the next 28 days or move the structures to an alternative position without further delay and before a site visit at the end of March. They did not respond to the points suggested by Surrey Dodger and stated that the matters suggested by Groundhog were not pertinent to planning enforcement.

The letter also states no further correspondence is needed.

The structures will move but it is very inconvenient at the moment. Any advice?

[Groundhog]

To up date on the above I received a letter today to apply for planning within the next They did not respond to the points suggested by Surrey Dodger and stated that the matters suggested by Groundhog were not pertinent to planning enforcement.

Not Bl***y Pertinent !
Any one familiar with Stonehenge will know there is an extensive outdoor pig unit next to the A303 an guessing there is inexcess of 50 arks you dont see him moving them every 14 days ! They will be moved according to good farming practice and air soil and water codes.
mobile poultry units would be the same.
They might say no further correspondance is needed as SD says ask them to supply legislation stating that they have to be moved
How tall is it ?

[olive]

Thanks for your continued interest Groundhog. I have asked them for the legislation suggested by SD but they declined to respond. Do you mean how tall are the structures? Or how tall is their response? If the former container 8', shelters 9', small touring caravan, just about tall enough for me and I'm 6'. If the latter I dont know how to measure absurdity!

Have I grounds to complain to the ombudsman? Is their any breach of Human Rights here? I feel victimised.