27 replies to this topic

[jayhelen]

hi once again

we had a busy week

development control

appraisal

planning officer


please have a look i have some thoughts but opinions would be great

Attached Files

•  Agricultural Appraisal (Bruton Knowles).pdf   4.39MB   58 downloads

[shepie]

Hi Jayhelen

Having looked at your appraisal i can`t see why you would get your prices for your sausage / pork and beef etc from the farmers weekly , it is not the place to go to get the prices you need to be making to achieve the necessary income .

sausage £1.42/kg needs to be £6-10 / kg

pork £1.44 /kg

Beef

please could you supply me with all your meat or am i missing something here ? they say you are tryng to meet premium prices ? where ? did you get an agent involved ???????
Shepie

P.s only trying to help

[Cornish Gems]

Hi Jayhelen

We agree with Shepie's comments about the non-premium prices. The prices which we saw had been quoted for your enterprise equate to those we used to pay in the supermarket!

We thought you were going to use the F2F route as a back-up plan, but you do not appear to have submitted a pd. We feel that this goes against you as it might not show a committment to your enterprise regardless of what happens with regard to the mobile home.

We had to smile at the comments regarding affordable housing and how the appraisers 'wrote-off' the high figures as not having any bearing on the matter. It would seem therefore that we should submit our own details of what is available locally with comments about the utter unsuitability of each property. For instance, much could perhaps be made out of the fact that our noisy vehicle is likely to disturb the next-door neighbour when we repeatedly return at unsociable hours because we have had to be dealing with births.

Finally, thank you so very much for posting this for us all to read. It is only by sharing and reading that we will be able to achieve our goals. One thing that most certainly stands out is the appraisals figures regarding SMDs. The figures they use are not those needed for rearing premium meat and all the work that is entailed when keeping one's pigs out-of-doors and making one's own sausages, etc. So many thanks for the help, because we are now making notes of all the work that is entailed in looking after each of our livestock. Regarding the pigs, the time needed for AI springs to mind - as does moving the arks to a new part of the paddock and the time spent in cleaning the feeding/water troughs, etc, etc. The figures used in the appraisal would appear to relate to a more 'commercial' enterprise and all the mechanisation associated with it, than with our specialised breeding programmes.

At the end of the day, we are afraid that the appraisal does not do much to help your case. However, if your application is refused, we believe you have the option to appeal and you can in the meantime address the points raised in the appraisal. Please note that successful appeals appear to have lots of suppporting evidence.

Good luck and thanks again.

[jayhelen]

Sorry just to make clear, I think I may have given some people the other end of the stick so to speak. This is the appraisal from the other side saying this is the prices they expect to achieve, and mine are pipe dreams

I hope that explains it,

I’m a exceptional chess player and a bit of a political animal / ill find the f2f community two bits of info I have on my computer a business plan given to me by a well known agricultural specialist who many on hear don’t see eye to eye with as he mostly works for the councils (wink wink) and the same tested case by the company testing against us

I’ll go and dig!

[shepie]

Ahh thats the bit we want to read go dig !

Shepie

[jayhelen]

PLEASE read with discretion

Attached Files

•  PLANNIG CASE 1.doc   143.5KB   45 downloads
•  PLANNIG CASE TEST.pdf   56.14KB   38 downloads

[Groundhog]

Sorry just to make clear, I think I may have given some people the other end of the stick so to speak. This is the appraisal from the other side saying this is the prices they expect to achieve, and mine are pipe dreams

I hope that explains it,

I’m a exceptional chess player and a bit of a political animal / ill find the f2f community two bits of info I have on my computer a business plan given to me by a well known agricultural specialist who many on hear don’t see eye to eye with as he mostly works for the councils (wink wink) and the same tested case by the company testing against us

I’ll go and dig!

Your appraisl needs to clarify and rubbish any key points made in the above,dispute the Management type figuttes used as these are based on commercial,provide detailed proposals of end market can you provide any letters of intent to buy.It is easy to quote that you will be specialist high market etc but unless you provide evidence or carefully compiled research its like me saying I am going to make high class jewelery and sell it on Bond Street for stupid money.Are you already on site ? Did you put the static there ? Are they taking action against you to remove it ?

[jayhelen]

part of our buissness plan

Attached Files

•  business plan Helen Snart Jason Anderton 08 06 11 (2).doc   613KB   33 downloads

[Cornish Gems]

The two files you submitted make extremely interesting reading.

It is a very great pity that Councils are not allowed to grant temporary permission for 'named-people' and not for the actual site. This would then stop speculators applying for permission and then selling the holding at a considerable profit as the permission would immediately cease to exist once the land passed out of the grantee's hands. If this were possible, then we feel it would make life much easier for genuine applicants.

Does anyone know how to start an on-line petition?

[Groundhog]

The two files you submitted make extremely interesting reading.

It is a very great pity that Councils are not allowed to grant temporary permission for 'named-people' and not for the actual site. This would then stop speculators applying for permission and then selling the holding at a considerable profit as the permission would immediately cease to exist once the land passed out of the grantee's hands. If this were possible, then we feel it would make life much easier for genuine applicants.

Does anyone know how to start an on-line petition?

If you think im going to sign a petition de-valuing my farm after getting planning you are mistaken

[Groundhog]

part of our buissness plan

Concise plan highlighting critiria to be met experience etc bedding palnts a good one for functional need.Figures and proposed market is good can you get a more proof of demand,I personaly dont think thje mention of have a growing list of people who want the meat is good enough an you get a butcher or hotel,retaurant on board a letter saying they want your product confirms this without commiting them.
You must know someone who can assist in this area.

[Cornish Gems]

If you think im going to sign a petition de-valuing my farm after getting planning you are mistaken

Groundhog, my friend,

I think you are missing the point of the post, example given by Jayhelen re: Coppley Wood is that the person there gained temp planning for a mobile home and imediately placed said property on the market at a much-increased value. This show that the person concerned only wanted to make money from speculation.

The fact you have been granted permissions does not devalue the farm from a fiscal point of view the increased value will be there. We are only suggesting that planning to be removed should you decide to sell, once you have temp planning for mobile etc. as it was granted based upon your business plan and your qualifications and knowledge not on those who purchase your land. They would need to submit their own plan.

If you intend to grow your business and make your land your home the idea put forward would not effect you or your farm.

People like Coppley Wood make life difficult for those like us who are genuinely trying to create a farm not make monies from speculation.

We also seem to remember that something similar happened regarding an alpaca business. Temp permission was obtained and then the whole shebang was placed on the market for an astronomical figure.

CG

[Piglet]

PLEASE read with discretion

I read the first report open mouthed! Farcical is what I would say and I don't even care if the spelling is correct. Piglet

[Groundhog]

Groundhog, my friend,

I think you are missing the point of the post, example given by Jayhelen re: Coppley Wood is that the person there gained temp planning for a mobile home and imediately placed said property on the market at a much-increased value. This show that the person concerned only wanted to make money from speculation.

The fact you have been granted permissions does not devalue the farm from a fiscal point of view the increased value will be there. We are only suggesting that planning to be removed should you decide to sell, once you have temp planning for mobile etc. as it was granted based upon your business plan and your qualifications and knowledge not on those who purchase your land. They would need to submit their own plan.

If you intend to grow your business and make your land your home the idea put forward would not effect you or your farm.

People like Coppley Wood make life difficult for those like us who are genuinely trying to create a farm not make monies from speculation.

We also seem to remember that something similar happened regarding an alpaca business. Temp permission was obtained and then the whole shebang was placed on the market for an astronomical figure.

CG

The Alpaca business was near Exeter they tried marketing it a going concern,then sold the livestock and put it up for sale,wasnt silly money from memory would br interested to know if someone is living there now,its on the forum somewhere Wiseowl put a link.
If I grow my farm from nothing establish a business and get planning think that entitles me to sell it at the market rate,am sure there are forum members who have yet to purchase land would consider an up and running enterprise,especially ones with a larger pot than I started off with "My Old Friend".
I think if I was that way inclined it would be a good way to make a living,there are only a few who want to take this challenge on.

[Cornish Gems]

But surely if the business is already established or is a going concern, then one would apply for full planning permission and not waste time on anything temporary? We thought the idea of temp planning permission was to give one time to prove that one's business plan,etc, is viable on 'bare land'. Certainly, once our business is doing what we are working towards achieving, we are not going to waste time on temp permission but go ahead for full permission.

[KChally]

But CG think of this. If your business has become succesfull without you actually living on your land, the planners will say there is no functional need and you dont need to live on your land. This happened to an egg producer near to us. Their business had been going for about 5 years without them living on their land. They put in an application to build a house and they were refused.

KChally

[Cornish Gems]

Please remember that we are following the F2F route - there is no way our current business would be growing the way it is if it were not for the fact that we are using a 'caravan' as accommodation whilst carrying out building and engineering works!

To go back though to our original suggestion, our concern is that councils will start refusing temp planning permissions, to those who for one reason or another cannot follow the F2F route, because too often the original applicants cash in on the permission even though it is only temporary. You KC are one of the exceptions.

Our concern for Jayhelen is that because of Copley Wood (which they actually mention as having provided training regarding pigs), they will be refused temp permission because the council will not trust them to follow their submitted business plan but will sell the parcel of land at its enhanced price.

[Groundhog]

Please remember that we are following the F2F route - there is no way our current business would be growing the way it is if it were not for the fact that we are using a 'caravan' as accommodation whilst carrying out building and engineering works!

To go back though to our original suggestion, our concern is that councils will start refusing temp planning permissions, to those who for one reason or another cannot follow the F2F route, because too often the original applicants cash in on the permission even though it is only temporary. You KC are one of the exceptions.

Our concern for Jayhelen is that because of Copley Wood (which they actually mention as having provided training regarding pigs), they will be refused temp permission because the council will not trust them to follow their submitted business plan but will sell the parcel of land at its enhanced price.

Your train of thought applies to full planning permission even more so !!,how many years do you envisage following the F2F route before putting in for planning ?

[surreydodger]

Hi, sorry I've been a bit busy of late so not been able to post much.

Helen, pretty much as Piglet has already stated. this report is the usual tripe written by an 'independent' consultant. I looked very quickly at it and I read one of the breakdowns of Standard Man Days,, look after 250 laying hens, equated to 20 minutes per day. Remember, this is the only example I worked through but I suspect the others are equally ludicrous. It'd take me 20 minutes alone just to open and shut the popholes each day and get any errant hens back indoors for the night, let alone check fencing each day, chase the foxes away, check on the hen house three or four times a day and oh then the small matter of feding, watering and egg collecting..... you are not forced to have to use remote or computerised technology for these tasks !!

Next I spied the availability of a nearby residence. What tosh. A rented house has no security. Homes these days are rented out on shorhold tenancies and there is no right to a renewal of the lease when the term expires,,,, i.e. you have no security of tenure and without that certainty in place, you could not reasonably be expected to carry out the business venture. As for the PPS7 having no regard for what the price is of a nearby home, I am 99% sure that is ridiculous as well. I am sure there are decisions and directives where the cost of a nearby home is a crucial factor in whether it is a suitable and realistic alternative to putting your own (much cheaper) home on site.

If it were me, I'd be sending a letter to the planning department requesting the justification of the expenditure of council tax payers funds on such a poorly and ill-informed report.

[shepie]

There are several ways to gain planning to live on site

1 f2f

2 start off site in the comfort of your own home and then due to a LARGE increase in stocking numbers and customers apply for 3 years temp and sell your house

3 do as per this http://publicaccess....l=LO7T79QK2M000

Shepie