53 replies to this topic

[dilangar]

Greetings
Am going to be moving soon on to a 20 acre plot with house. My question is do we need planning for camping and caravans,where looking for a way to raise money without spending too much. I know it's getting late in the year but were a stones throw from the south downs, would that be a problem? We are within the national park. This is only for a short period. Many thanks

[Cornish Gems]

For a fully fledged camping site you will require full PP, however you can have a certified licence from either The Caravan Club or the Camping and Caravan Club. You may have to have a sluice installed and all that that entails. Also most caravaners like to have electricity hook up points they are normally 16amps so you will need to have a good electricity supply, toilet facilities may also be required. Check out their websites for how to get details.

Caravan Club, certified site allows you 5 caravans.

Caravan and Camping Club, certified site allows you 5 caravans and 10 tents.

CG

[shepie]

After a visit from my parents this weekend i found out they know the man incharge of the caravan and camping club very well indeed , he is the one that comes round to see if you have what they want and gives you the thumbs up thats that one in the bag then .

Speaking to a guy the other day who told me if you have 5 HA plus you can have 40 tents and 10 caravans to the acre without planning ????

Shepie

[sodbuster]

Shepie do you know if you have to live on the site to be a member of the caravan and camping club.When i ask them to come out will they be Ok if they see us living in the static or should i call them out before the static goes on site? Als there is a site nearish to us? I have asked them questions via the phone but they want to come out

Sodbuster

[shepie]

Hi Sodbuster

I don`t think you have to be on site as i have stayed on a NT campsite before and they just let anyone pitch up and come round for the money early before anyone gets up , with the internet to advertise and mobile phones i am shure it will be ok , as for the neighbours just be better with what you do , i don`t see you being on site as a minus realy , i would say be tidy though , as i said it`s my parents who know this guy not me YET .

Shepei

[dollybassett]

Hi you do not need planning permission to become a CL/CS but you will need planning permission to use the water and chemical disposal point, as my very recent Planning Appeal has shown.

The Camping and Caravanning Club, do not make that clear when you apply for an Exempted Camping Cert.


Dolly

[dollybassett]

Hi,

I should also point out, the water supply was already on my land I did not install it, plus the Chemical Disposal Point, was

a wooden chamber over the main sewer, totally moveable, but the Planning Inspector deemed it was Operational Developement, so full

planning permission needed.

Makes a farse of a Exempted Camping Cert.


Hopes this helps.

Dolly

[Cornish Gems]

We have seen Caravan and Camping Club sites which not only do not have an owner present, also do not have proper facilities.

Dolly - lovely to hear from you again. We remember your earlier posts and indeed have mentioned them in pm's. Your experiences are a great support to this forum. Have your probs now been resolved? Do you in fact have caravans and tents on your site or is the fact that the council were difficult mean that the Club did not reinstate your licence?

We know of sites where there is no chemical disposal point but there are portaloos such as those that you see at shows. We think the council were unfair in their decision - however it does depend on how high the structure you made was. In much the same way as you are only allowed to erect a fence of a certain height, we believe that the same applies to non-moveable structures. But perhaps someone else can confirm this for us.

[dollybassett]

Hi Cornish Gems,

I have been running campsite under 28 day rule, tents only, and it has worked very well. I am growing willow (for baskets etc), and trees from seeds, my land is really about wildlife as it is willow, so it's better if the campsite part remains independent rather than being tied to a camping club, so I will not be trying to get my camping cert reinstated.

The Appeal decision was very interesting, the Planning Inspector identified the planning unit as a mixed use planning unit, Agriculture/forestry, Camping and Caravanning Site and Static Caravan used for Residential purposes, and stated that change of use had not occured, and as such I Do Not have to return the land back to agriculture(campsite and carpark).

I will reinstate my toilet shed, and bin area, so that just means sorting out the water with LDNP, I will in time apply for pp to operate longer than 28days.

A word of caution to anyone receiving an enforcement notice from the lpa, check that the notices are actually legal, because the Planning Inspector criticized the Lake District National Park Planning Authority for issuing me with defective enforcement notices. I had already in Jan 11 challenged their original notices because they had got the dates wrong, and they had to reissue me with new notices. LDNP are so intent on getting rid of me they are not checking that what they are actually doing is correct.

On the whole I was very happy with my appeal decision, I appealed on ground C only, as I didn't have the £1000 needed to appeal on ground A.

The planners have gone quiet at the moment, which normally means they are plotting something - time will tell.

They are the Hunters and we are the Hunted.



Dolly

[Cornish Gems]

Thank you so much for taking the time to add your bit. It is an inspriation to us to know that someone somewhere out there is succeeding so far. You have also demonstrated that one should stick to one's guns when it comes to lpa's It would be interesting to read more about your appeal. Would you be willing to share more about it with us? Can one find it online?

[dollybassett]

Hi Cornish Gems,

You can google me 'Crosthwaite Meadow' the Appeal is there plus all my other lpa stuff. Not sure I am succeeding yet, just plodding along and learning about the system, I have made many mistakes, and am sure will make many more.

But I believe by many people choosing this way of life, things will eventually change and it will get easier to live and work on our land.

I haven't applied for temp residency as yet but I am considering it at the moment.


Dolly

[Cornish Gems]

For those interested the Appeal Decision can be found here lakedistrict Crosthwaite Meadow.

For what do you use the mobile home mentioned in the appeal?

Do you have a really strong tractor so that when the caravans get bogged down because there is no kind of trackway anymore you can tow them out? Believe you me, a messed up field because of no hardstandings is far more unsightly than discreet trackways, etc. Wonder how the authority will react to that?

[rjimmer]

Someone once told me that there are 46 organizations that can designate a 5 unit CL site without applying for PP.
Would a portaloo need PP?

[dollybassett]

Hi Cornish Gems,

I use the static caravan as an agricultural chattel - bait cabin/office/rest room, not residential I did mention this to the Planning Inspector,
but he decided otherwise.

I only take tents now, because the hardstanding stones have gone, I have created individual camping pitches with willow growing around them.

As for the portoloo, as long as it isn't attached to the gound(moveable) you do not need pp, my toilet shed sat on a wooden platform, and the Planning Inspector said it did not require pp.


Dolly

[Cornish Gems]

Hi - before you next contact them or answer any of more of their questions, have a good read of the two bookmarks regarding Caravan and Health and Safety. You can find them here...

Caravan and Health and Safety bookmarks

What sort of tents do you take and have there been any complaints? We think we are going to be refused a licence from the Camping and Caravanning Club because of one neighbour and so we are interested in your experiences because we do need to have more money coming in to continue with all the building work we still need to do. Any advice you can give us will be much appreciated.

[dollybassett]

Hi Cornish Gems,

I didn't have anyone complaining about me becoming a CL, because even though I am only a 10min walk from Keswick Town Centre, I have no immediate neighbours just a graveyard.

When my cert was revoked(I only had it a few months), and as I was planting willow, I decided to create indivual grass pitches, and plant the willow around it - it take just tents any type, including yurts, bell tents etc, but not trailer tents, campers park their cars in the parking area and take there camping stuff to a pitch, this protects the land from being churned up. The campers I have had have really loved the campsite set up, having plenty of space and feeling there are wild camping, in between the pitches I have planted big blocks of willow.
Campers have turned up having been recommended by friends who have stayed on the site.

When I lost my cert I did think my campsite was doomed, but actually losing the cert was the best thing, as the campsite is individual and it appeals to campers who just want to chill out.

The only people to complain about it are the Parish Council, but they complain about everything I do anyway.

Perhaps you could start off camping under the 28day rule, and build up the campsite and in time apply for pp for a longer camping season.
Decide what type of campsite you would like, mine is eco-campsite based. I have kept my site small 5 pitches, wooden toilet shed, bins and water.

Dolly

[saffire]

Hi Dolly

I was very interested to read your post above about allowing tents on the 28day rule.
I have a similar enterprise. Growing trees for fruit, firewood and willow weaving etc. I have been thinking along the same lines as you about setting up individual tent pitches with willow dividers.
Can you point me in the direction of this 28day legislation please?

Regards
Saffire

[Piglet]

Hi you do not need planning permission to become a CL/CS but you will need planning permission to use the water and chemical disposal point, as my very recent Planning Appeal has shown.

The Camping and Caravanning Club, do not make that clear when you apply for an Exempted Camping Cert.


Dolly

Hello there Dolly

Would you mind if I was to have a look at your recent appeal decision. If so please could you pm me the details. Many thanks. PIglet x

[Piglet]

Hello there Dolly

Would you mind if I was to have a look at your recent appeal decision. If so please could you pm me the details. Many thanks. PIglet x

Read the other posts now and seen that I can google your application and appeal decisions.
Interested to know if it is possible to make enough money from the 28 day rule - does it mean that one tent can only stay for a maximum of 28 days or does it mean you can only have tents on your land for 28 days of the year? It seems to me that 28 days is quite limiting. Piglet

[dollybassett]

Hi Saffire,

I believe under permitted development, you can allow tents on your field for up to 28 days in any one year, staying up to 2 days at any one time. it's lovely to know that someone else is growing willow.

Hi Piglet,

Camping 28 days in a year is very limiting in terms of revenue generated, but the income I have earned has been very useful. On my site I tend to get big groups staying for a couple days and earning £100 for two days camping certainly makes my purse happy.
I feel 28 days camping is a good starting point, and then apply for pp for a longer camping season.


Dolly