8 replies to this topic

[peartree]

Hi all, we need some advise, we own 10.73 acres of land under Mid Sussex Council and rent 2 acres under Horsham Council, the rented land is 3 miles away from our land.Is this ok for planning purposes? Does it count as our 5 hecteres.Council said didn't count as it was in a neighbouring council We have 6 Alpacas at moment and 30 chickens.There as been some complants according to the planning guy, inconection with the alpacas in being not agriicultural, what do they know! The siting of the caravan which has been there for 9months. We have built up in the past 3 weeks two areas measuring 3m SQ each,made from dirt and road chippings on top,to put two sheds on, 8x8ft to store our small tractors.The planning investigater has been last week and sent a letter saying that we have to put in planning for them, as they do not appear to be necessary for the purpose of agriculture. but if it was slabs and not chippings it would to ok. They also want us to remove our 18ft 2 berth touring caravan because it has a toilet and kitchen and could easily become habitable,like to see them live in it! We store animal feed, animal meds, and our first aid box in it and some tools. We have also put in an entrants

Part of letter received:- The hard standing just inside the field gate and the one constucted in the north west corner of the field which to build a tractor shed, require planning permission because they do not appear to be ncessary for thr purpose of agriculure within the unit. It is suggested that the caravan is remove from the land because it has a toilet and kitchen area it could easily become habitable.
yours derek and tina

[surreydodger]

hi Peartree,

First of all, do you have a CPH No, (County, Parish, Holding number) which pertains to all your pieces of land? It is irrelative whether it lies in different District Council areas (ask him does that rule apply to the thousands of farms lying across D.C.'s borders!!). If you don't have a CPH No. I recommend you get one to strengthen your cause.

The caravan is not being used as a dwelling and I would write to confirm that. If every planning rule was enforced on 'might' and 'maybe' or 'could be' then there would need to be a huge increase in planning officers to enforce the rules. Inform him it is used purely as somewhere for you to take a loo break, make a coffee and provide shelter during moments of inclement weather. Storing a few agriculural items such as feed and tools is also a legitimate use.

I get the feeling you have a rather amateur planning officer here, who is just putting the frighteners on.

The hard standing is possibly the one area where you can fall foul. If such cases went to enforcement action then an Inspector would look at it as a 'matter of fact and degree' as to whether it was operational development, requiring planning. The 'matter of fact and degree' judication is sadly undefinable but if the planning officer is saying you can lay slabs, then I would probably take him up on the offer and avoid any hassle. You could of course argue that it so small, that the work is insignificant and does not require any planning application but for that, you would need to be bpretty sure you can argue your case successfully.

As to whether the sheds are justifiable. The fact that they are not going to be fixed structures should alleviate the need to put in a Permitted Development notice. However, if they are to attached to the ground, then that is another matter which would require a PD notice.

[peartree]

hi Peartree, hi thanks and yes we have a CPD No

First of all, do you have a CPH No, (County, Parish, Holding number) which pertains to all your pieces of land? It is irrelative whether it lies in different District Council areas (ask him does that rule apply to the thousands of farms lying across D.C.'s borders!!). If you don't have a CPH No. I recommend you get one to strengthen your cause.

The caravan is not being used as a dwelling and I would write to confirm that. If every planning rule was enforced on 'might' and 'maybe' or 'could be' then there would need to be a huge increase in planning officers to enforce the rules. Inform him it is used purely as somewhere for you to take a loo break, make a coffee and provide shelter during moments of inclement weather. Storing a few agriculural items such as feed and tools is also a legitimate use.

I get the feeling you have a rather amateur planning officer here, who is just putting the frighteners on.

The hard standing is possibly the one area where you can fall foul. If such cases went to enforcement action then an Inspector would look at it as a 'matter of fact and degree' as to whether it was operational development, requiring planning. The 'matter of fact and degree' judication is sadly undefinable but if the planning officer is saying you can lay slabs, then I would probably take him up on the offer and avoid any hassle. You could of course argue that it so small, that the work is insignificant and does not require any planning application but for that, you would need to be bpretty sure you can argue your case successfully.

As to whether the sheds are justifiable. The fact that they are not going to be fixed structures should alleviate the need to put in a Permitted Development notice. However, if they are to attached to the ground, then that is another matter which would require a PD notice.

[peartree]

hi we do have a CPH No

[peartree]

we told him we was a registed small holding

[che]

Part of letter received:- The hard standing just inside the field gate and the one constucted in the north west corner of the field which to build a tractor shed, require planning permission because they do not appear to be ncessary for thr purpose of agriculure within the unit. It is suggested that the caravan is remove from the land because it has a toilet and kitchen area it could easily become habitable.
yours derek and tina

What a **** alpacas not agricultural yea right. 6sq mtrs of hardstanding excessive on 5 hectare holding are we on the same planet. Dont suppose the council offices have toilets and kitchens? "they do" sorry building will have to go cos someone might live in it . They have certainly scraped the bottom of your barrel, I would check it for leaks.
Only on this website will you find such tripe uttured by so called proffessionals. As a group you should hang your heads in shame. Get a life and do your jobs properly and stop abusing your powers. Most of the tyrants in this world believed the end justified the means.

[peartree]

Hi, our CPH No is on our own land but not on the rented land is this something that should be addressed. What sort of proof for the rented land do the PD need? Has anyone else had land in two different councils to make up 5 Hectare. As our PD said they will not count the rented land as it is under a different council. WE have just over 5 Hecteres but the PD will not except that we have enough land Thanks

[surreydodger]

Hi Peartree,

The renting situation would be that you would need to show the planners that you have a lease in place. A short term tenancy agreement or grazing agreement is not usually cnsidered enough (these are generally only 12 months tenure).

If you have a proper agricultural lease in place and these are generally for several years, seven being probably the most popular, then that is sufficient to show you are running the land in conjunction with your own holding.

When plannng officers come up with such oddities as this one, i.e. land not within their district does not count, then we would advise you ask the planning officer for the piece of legislation that says you can NOT include it as part of your holding. No proof of legislation forthcoming would mean you are good to go. Also, ensure that if they do provide you with a piece of legislation that it is natiolnal regs and not some local piece of twaddle which has been created without fair substantiation. Always put the ball on their foot when rules are quoted and ask for the relevant regulation.

As an aside, 'PD' tends to refer to Permitted Development rather than planning dept. around here

[peartree]

hi do we need planning for a shiping container on any size piece of land .if they wont let us have the sheds sitting on road chipings witch look better then it will be a shiping container this is what i am going to tell them as it dont need planning is that right ?