8 replies to this topic

[Sunnysouthdevon]

Working in an agri consultants house today, he seems to think end of this year the council can no longer judge/ base agricultural planning applications on hours or money, they will apparently be looking at the ' functional need' aspect of things rather than the money aspect due to some new ruling

[j and H]

i heard this months  ago, but the functional will still have to work along side hours, for example 300 sheep = 1 working day or 100 milking goats = 1 day

 

don't think you will get away with 10 goats and a few sheep, if you know what i mean……..

[Tom Bombadil]

So if there is a functional need, does that mean that just ONE milking goat will be enough?

I CAN milk 100 goats a day, but there is a need to milk the only ten I have!

Do we know where these new guidelines are coming from? ..... because I am getting fed up of jumping through newer and newer hoops!

Its sounds a lot like One Planet Development, as in Wales, to me!

[shepie]

Think you could look at this two ways
The way you are and what functional need would there be to live on site to milk ten goats ?
The same as sheep , none unless you were to have 300
Do you really think they would make building in the countryside easier
It may actually make it harder as proving financial on a cash based business is easy as is hours with large numbers but most are seasonal / no real need to live permanently on site
Tom have you jumped through any hoops yet ? Or are you meaning in life in general

[Sunnysouthdevon]

I personally think it's going to make the system even more shit if they do this! How can a functional need be defined? I don't think it would matter if you have 500 sheep or 500 dairy cows...... You don't really need to live on site for that purpose, yes it's an advantage but not a specific requirement were your needed 24hrs a day

[Tom Bombadil]

All my life shepie, we all have to a degree, though not much for myself as far as this venture is concerned!

The goats were just an example.

To live on site. To NEED to live on site has to be a provable commodity. And is seems no matter where one treads, the cracks will be filled. I am not talking freeman stuff here. Just watching things get worse for the likes of you and I.

[Tom Bombadil]

To expand.

If one thinks of just what the whole F2F thing is, it is one big jumping through hoops to get the bone at the end of the trick.

Having to provide proof of this or need for that, and for what? Well in the F2F route for the ability to live on a plot without buying a ready made farm. One could of just saved...well maybe not. That IS out of the question for most here, and out there.

When I said it sounded like the OPD (see above) I realy meant it in a good way. But that route is still a lot of hoop justification.

Some folk, with balls, just turn up...set up a farm....live on site as they do it, in a caravan etc....and fight the good fight after the fact. And that seems to work from information I get from the chaps on the ground.

Not poo pooing F2F. But it is looking like the local boys in the councils are making a possi comitatis for us to pay up or get out of town...their town. Or in other words, if everything becomes too localised, the the big wigs in town will always get their way!

I would like to know more of this new ruling sunnysouthdevon.

[j and H]

Personally, i think this is great news, as it stands, you need to prove functional and financial ….

functional was always going to be a big part of it, Out of the two, i would have thought, financial would have been the hardest, 

 

authorities need a figure to work with….so they use two books, depending on area, 1 is the john knox, the other is the ABC ( the Agriculture budgeting and costing book )

these give .them the figures they need to work out hours, ……in reality, lets just say, 90 goats of one breed, would take the same amount of time as 100 goats of another, but that would just confuse things, …its a bit like registering poultry/birds…50 is the magic number, 49 isn't……………….

 

Milking, breeding, foot care, shearing, dagging, drenching, feeding, are all things that are functional, so for 10 goats, this will not make up a days work, but still needs doing,  but 100 would, 

from the point of financial, pigs would be the winner, quickest turn around, and biggest birth rate per animal….

 

but even there, lets take a person who rears 40 pigs in one year, he does his own roast hogs at £500 per pig..his turn over is £20k..before deductions…. 40 pigs would not be enough to warrant being there, they simply would not make up the hours….

 

 

This route, has always been hard, and to be honest, so it should be, if you honestly want to build up a farm, and then get permission to live on that farm, you have to pay a price of lots and lots of hard work, and to prove you really want to be a farmer, 

if it was easy, many rich people would be buying up agriculture land and building on it….

 

the F2F book is just a guide…and should be used in that way, it shows you how to start, and gives some fantastic guide lines, 

we will all have different out looks to what animals and what part of the market we want to supply,

which in turn will see us all do things slightly different...  

[surreydodger]

My view is that the financial test is in a grey period. Whilst there is some recognition by SOME planning authorities that the financial test is no longer required in the sense of how it used to be considered under the defunct but oft fallen back on Annexe A guidelines, the new word that covers things is 'sustainability'.

 

Under sustainability, it seems to be a fair argument that a new agricultural dwelling must be sustainable from the farm business. Does that include mortgage payments is debatable but a figure for the build and upkeep of a dwelling must be demonstrated if it is to be proven sustainable. Afterall, there would be little point in having a planning regulation allowing an agriculturally tied house which then has no prospect of being maintained and afforded.

 

What will probably take effect over time is a degree of recognition that a particular farming practice can support a dwelling. How that comes about is yet to be seen tried or tested.