6 replies to this topic

[Groundhog]

KChally in her diary called Diary of a Pig Farmer, on 09 February 2012 - 06:31 PM, said:

Went to the Parish Council meeting last night. I thought our planning application would be on the agenda and hey presto it was. What a fiasco. The members seemed quite edgy that a member of the public was there (I was the only one) so I sat in the corner near the radiator and waited - 2 hours. They went through all the usual, where shall we plant daffs this year, which pot holes need filling and oh yes the jubilee celebrations and so on and so on. At the beginning of the meeting the Chairman had made himself known to me, only because he wanted to know who I was, so I told him I was there because I wanted to know what the Parish Councils thoughts were on our application.

Finally they got to our application. I always thought that if a member of the public wanted to say anything it had to be at the beginning of the meeting, but by god I really had to start defending myself. They had passed all the plans and reports round the table whilst they were discussing other items, so they obviously hadnt seen them before the meeting. A couple of members read through them intently (the farmers in the group) and others just glanced at them. How can you make a decision on something when you havent read the documents fully? beats me! One of them started to question (sorry interrogate) me about the financial
aspect and how could we possibly build anything with that, it couldnt possibly build a commercial???? building. Had to remind him we were building an agricultural workers dwelling (idiot). More stupid questions were asked, like they thought we couldnt possibly have a sustainable business on 6 acres. I reminded them it was all in the reports and they needed to read them.

Now get this, the Chairman said to me "would you mind leaving the room for about 10 minutes so we can discuss it". I said "well i suppose not, but I thought this was an open public meeting". At that point our local councillor, who was attending the meeting and who buys from us at the local farmers market and wants to support us, reminded the Parish Council Chairman that he couldnt do that because it was a PUBLIC MEETING. Anyway, they all had a further conflab and the outcome was they refused it (surprise, surprise) Now, our local councillor was only doing her job, but she had to call the application to go to committee, because it was what was required of her. She told the Parish Council though, that they must send someone to the Planning Committee meeting or she would refer it back for a delegated decision. They ummed and arred about who was to go (none of them really wanted to, they are all talk, ba....ds) In the end the Clerk said, "well I suppose it will have to be me"

Its like some sort of comedy show, without the comedy. (Funnily enough at the beginning of the meeting the Chairman said "We are not very much like the Vicar or Dibley" (idiot) )

So there you have it upto date. Parish Councils, what a load of w......s (sorry about the expletives, but Im so wound up).....

The thing that gets me is that much of this is planning law,but planning officers,parish councils,landscaping depts all seem to think it is up to them to deal with it how they see fit.You should not have to comment or defend yourself against a group of people at a parish council meeting.You have submitted detailed information about financial and functional and proved viability over the 3 years
Sorry Ive done it again commented on the Diary Page  Doh !

[greenmeadow]

I was under the impression that Parish Councils have no power they can merely pass their recommendations onto the planning authority who are free to ignore them! The Planning Authority is usually the district council. Confusion can arise because people can be both a parish and district councillor (and also a county councillor) and can sometimes forget when they have their parish council hat on that they have no power. Is your local friendly councillor just on the parsh or do they have any influence at district level.
It maybe that Wales has a different structure.
Don't forget we're talking politics here and councillors can often make decisions for personal reasons i.e nimbyism, to upset/please a friend/neighbour etc. Parish councils in particular seem to attract awkward interfering people.
The clerk to the council is not normally an elected councillor - usually an employee of the council paid to take the minutes etc. so I cannot see that the have the right to attend a district planning committee except as a member of the public. Make sure you attend the planning committee at district level so that if anything needs clarifying you are on hand. Take notes and then compare them with the minutes which will be available on the website once someone gets round to entering them.
Green Meadow

[helend]

Following on from Green meadow, about attending the committee meeting, am I right in thinking that not only can you attend but you get 3 minutes to actually address them? Or is that a different committee? If it is right, then I also remember reading that not only do you get 3 minutes but up to three people can speak , so maybe your planning consultant or agricultural consultant?  

What is it about these committees anyway, people on them turning into power crazed lunatics that can be influenced by opinion and favours, rather than being made to be impartial and fully informed of the all the facts. I didn't really want to get involved in politics but it looks like it may be in my interest to do so, sneak in round the back and take them by surprise.

I find it ridiculous that after everything you've endured so far KChally (and others) that you have to suffer these fools. But you're obviously the right person for the job, and a trail blazer, making the path clearer for the rest of us

[KChally]

Groundhog, you are completely right. When I went to the parish council meeting, Im sure they had made up their mind to refuse it even before any of them had read the reports. I had to remind them of the PPS7 document and that was what they need to refer to so they could make an imparial judgement. The Chairman kept referring to MAFF documents which just shows how out of date he is (idiot). Out of 12 of them only 2 actually made any comments, there was minimal discussion. At the end of the day all it seems to be is "not in my back yard".

Greenmeadow, luckilly for me none of the parish councillors are local authority councillors and will not sit on the planning committee. My local councillor who attended the meeting was there as an observor and she is not a parish councillor. She will though attend the planning committee meeting in support of us she says. The person who will attend the planning committee meeting from the parish council will be the clerk, as nobody else put up their hand, so he said "oh well i suppose it will have to be me". In fact my hubby thinks it should be the chairman of the parish council who should attend to make their representations and not the clerk.

You are so right in that parish council decisions are made for their own personal reasons. Because of this, when our situation is all over, we are going to look into our local parish council and try to do something about them. They cannot get away with what they are doing.  

We will definitely attend the planning committee meeting along with our agri consultant and planning consultant.

Helend, yes you are correct, we get 3 minutes to say our piece and I think our local councillor gets 5 minutes, which in fact is quite a long time when you are speaking. Our secret weapon we think is our agri consultant, as it is his company sometimes that our council use when they need an independant report themselves. Hopefully he will be available on the day!!

Its the power problem that some people have and these types of people should NOT be on any sort of committee. Parish councils I think are the worst. Dont forget they all know each other and some of them are even related. On ours there are 2 couples, husband and wife. When the voting time came, the husband of one couple didnt put up his hand as he was abstaining I think. His wife put up her hand in refusal, but when she saw her husband hadnt she put it down, then up then down, like she didnt know what to do. Totally unacceptable and undemocratic surely. Ridiculous is a very good descriptive word for them and my hubby and I will do everything we possibly can to sort them out. Firstly though we need to focus on our business and application.

Wish us luck.

[che]

Hi KChally;

Check with your council what there protocol is for speaking at planning meetings it vareis from one authority to another.  Try and visit one before your application comes up it will give you an idea of how things operate in practice.
Your council website should tell you who is on your Planning Committee and how to contact them.  Take the opportunity to inform them of yourselves and what you do.
Your trump card will be the hard work you have put into your business and it is this which will sway opion.  Dont worry about the NIMBYism it will mereley strengthen your case.
Dont think it is luck that leads to sucess in this business.  In other words you make your own luck. My money is on your sucess and failure would be more of an injustice than bad luck

Finally to all have a PLAN B and never consider giving up..

[KChally]

Hi Che,

I have had a look at the local council website and found who the members of the planning committee are. Do you think it a good idea to contact each of them before the meeting? what would you actually tell them, cos surely they should have read,(or will be doing) all our reports. Unlike the parish council, do you think they will read all the reports fully and not just flitt thru them. Would you telephone or write to them. Sorry to bombard you with these questions, but from previous posts I know you are an expert on these things. I am becoming very disillusioned with councillors of any description.

At the meeting our local councillor will get 5 minutes, then on the website it says everyone else gets 3 minutes. So does that mean our agri consultant gets 3 minutes, then if I want to say something I get 3 minutes, or will it be a total of 3 minutes for both of us?

Our consultants should explain all the ins and outs of our application to the committee, but I am feeling I would like to say something to back them up, maybe some general information relating to the economics of our industry, you know facts and figures. I have read an interesting article in the Farmers Weekly and some info has come out of the Countryfile Programme recently

I am beginning to feel slightly out of control of the situation and my depth, so any help would be very much appreciated.

KChally

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[Groundhog]

Totaly agree with Che its not luck,as with everything you only get out what you put in.Always question,look outside the box(I hate that expression)Solution rather than problems.There is always another way of tackling things be it to challenge decisions or pre-empt possible obstacles or barriers and have a response or counter attack.Network or dont.Get people on your side went on a great course years ago that showed you about posture eye contact parent child,andd dominant or recessive behaviour around others.At the time thought it was barking but have learnt over the years it is an effective tool.Ches diary shows that from a fairly bleak wobble start he managed to turn things around.Had a planning site meeting where altho I was contesting the planning officer I stood alongside him and actually questioned my consultant as if on his side.You have to be a salesman and be passionate but not emotional.